leica sl2 Leica SL2 AF

[Donzo98]

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15 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

I have to agree that there is something 'not quite right' with the EVF behaviour ....... initially when I used the SL2 I felt that I hadn't got the dioptre adjustment right, but the rest of the display was spot on so it must be ok. Using the eye close to the eyepiece seems to accentuate the issue, and I spent ages comparing the S1R and SL2 EVF's, initially thinking there was a big difference .... although it varied between subjects ..... and then with time wondering if I was just imagining it all.

One thing I have discovered ...... eye position on the eyepiece is absolutely critical ...... there is a very localised position where things are pin sharp, and deviating from this point even by a few millimetres results in the image looking as if it's just not quite in focus. Bizarrely, for me, this is slightly off centre to the left ..... which does make me wonder whether there is misalignment of the lens elements in the EVF in percentage of these cameras ..... which would also explain some people complaining bitterly about it and others finding no issue at all.....

Maybe time to shoot off an email to Leica .....

The image is crystal sharp in PLAYBACK mode... so I don't think it's an alignment issue.

[thighslapper]

2 minutes ago, Donzo98 said:

The image is crystal sharp in PLAYBACK mode... so I don't think it's an alignment issue.

On my SL2 there is no difference ..... in fact the liveview image is if anything sharper than the playback image. 

I've cycled through all the AF modes, MF, pre-focus on and off and it's exactly the same in all of them. 

The mystery deepens .....

[digitalfx]

13 minutes ago, Donzo98 said:

The image is crystal sharp in PLAYBACK mode... so I don't think it's an alignment issue.

Interesting...you are right.

If you set auto review to "shutter pressed" you can see the live image and playback back and forth and back...and you can see a clear shift in the image quality

if you use shutter pressed mode you can go from live to playback to live...and its that last change back to live where I see a noticeable decrease in sharpness

 

[digitalfx]

2 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

On my SL2 there is no difference ..... in fact the liveview image is if anything sharper than the playback image. 

I've cycled through all the AF modes, MF, pre-focus on and off and it's exactly the same in all of them. 

The mystery deepens .....

try my test above

[Donzo98]

39 minutes ago, digitalfx said:

Interesting...you are right.

If you set auto review to "shutter pressed" you can see the live image and playback back and forth and back...and you can see a clear shift in the image quality

if you use shutter pressed mode you can go from live to playback to live...and its that last change back to live where I see a noticeable decrease in sharpness

 

Happens with the Q2 as well... likely something to do with the 47mp sensor vs 24. Didn't happen on Q or SL.

[Donzo98]

Not yet fixed on Q2. I got used to it. 

[digitalfx]

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On the Q2 its not quite as critical. Its an AF only camera that has a fixed wide angle lens...The SL2 supports lots of lenses and many are MF

[SrMi]

11 minutes ago, digitalfx said:

On the Q2 its not quite as critical. Its an AF only camera that has a fixed wide angle lens...The SL2 supports lots of lenses and many are MF

Q2 is not an AF only camera.

[Donzo98]

22 minutes ago, digitalfx said:

On the Q2 its not quite as critical. Its an AF only camera that has a fixed wide angle lens...The SL2 supports lots of lenses and many are MF

I 100% agree... with a fixed 28... as long as I see the AF box turns green... I’m happy. I nearly always shoot the Q2 at 1.7... and what I need in focus,  is. 
 

SL2 much more critical... 

[digitalfx]

14 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Q2 is not an AF only camera.

I understand that...Ive owned the Q. What I mean is that it doesn't require MF...the SL2 does. 

Its a fixed 28mm

[NRKstudio]

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even at this incredibly low res reproduction via LCforum, look at these shots of the  SL2 EVF I took with my iPhone 11 xs max pro.  the first shot is live view and the second is playback mode.  It’s visible the degradation in live view.

the live view resolution looks like what the half-loaded images look like in playback mode when the camera is loading and rendering the image.  In playback the camera seems to first display the thumbnail sized low res image first, and then the camera loads the full res image and it dramatically sharpens up.  That half loaded image is what live view reminds me of.  Live view could be just displaying these low res proxy images, like playback mode the proxy image loads first until the camera loads the actual JPEG.  
 

thus I think it may never work on the SL to live view display a higher res image  on the 5mp EVF.  It’s not just a resolution failure but it’s the entire method of viewing proxy images as a live view display.  

 

[Donzo98]

29 minutes ago, NRKstudio said:

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even at this incredibly low res reproduction via LCforum, look at these shots of the  SL2 EVF I took with my iPhone 11 xs max pro.  the first shot is live view and the second is playback mode.  It’s visible the degradation in live view.

the live view resolution looks like what the half-loaded images look like in playback mode when the camera is loading and rendering the image.  In playback the camera seems to first display the thumbnail sized low res image first, and then the camera loads the full res image and it dramatically sharpens up.  That half loaded image is what live view reminds me of.  Live view could be just displaying these low res proxy images, like playback mode the proxy image loads first until the camera loads the actual JPEG.  
 

thus I think it may never work on the SL to live view display a higher res image  on the 5mp EVF.  It’s not just a resolution failure but it’s the entire method of viewing proxy images as a live view display.  

 

@Chaemono Care to comment?? I was torn to pieces when I brought this up because I didn’t own the camera. @photonc didn’t have enough posts to be credible.

Guess others saying it now are wrong as well. 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Donzo98

[Chaemono]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb Donzo98:

@Chaemono Care to comment?? I was torn to pieces when I brought this up because I didn’t own the camera. @photonc didn’t have enough posts to be credible.

Guess others saying it now are wrong as well. 

Yes, I do. See reaction above. 

[digitalfx]

The two images above are meaningless...its simply not possible to demonstrate the issue by taking a photo of a 3/4" screen on your iPhone and posting low res jpegs.

The EVF has an issue, but the sky isn't falling...lets lets put this in perspective. Furthermore, there is no reason to start another angry discussion and call people out. Keep it professional.

[Chaemono]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb digitalfx:

Here is a good example of what I see. Find a situation similar to the attached image.

Make sure Pre-Focus is off and use AFs mode- Then focus on the small head shots on the paper. Are they tack sharp?

When I focus, AFs is locking on the image identified by the red arrow. But in the EVF this square is very soft, If I was manually focusing on this point I would have a tough time. Once I take the image the playback looks sharper (w/o zooming in)...hence the comments that the LCD is sharper than the EVF.

I almost wonder if the issue is in the Eyepiece. Its like Im one click away from bringing my diopter in. (But for me my diopter falls in the middle, so it has plenty of range).

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I focused on distance subjects in the exercise   here: https://chaemono.smugmug.com/SL2-light-and-color/ and I took many more pictures that day than the three shown in the link.  I didn’t notice any EVF softness issues at all and have no idea what some people are seeing.  I do leave Pre Focus on which I love because by the time one frames the picture the camera will have focused already.  The shot can be taken instantaneously. 

 

[NRKstudio]

3 hours ago, digitalfx said:

The two images above are meaningless...its simply not possible to demonstrate the issue by taking a photo of a 3/4" screen on your iPhone and posting low res jpegs.

The EVF has an issue, but the sky isn't falling...lets lets put this in perspective. Furthermore, there is no reason to start another angry discussion and call people out. Keep it professional.

The iPhone 11 XS Pro Max has 12 megapixel captures (and above), while the screen is 5.7 megapixels in its best view, so it obviously can accurately portray the degradation issue.
If you think the shots are not demonstrative because it was taken with an iPhone, then we go from constructively assessing an issue to Turning our heads away and calling it “fake news”.  
 

We know Leica testers read this forum, so I’m hoping it does get back to Leica.  Also, it seems DPreview also called this as an issue as well.  
 

Also just FYI, the Sony A7r4 used this exact 5.7 megapixel EVF, with no issue at all with resolution degradation at magnified live view.  It also allowed AFS and photo captures during magnified live view mode, without having to revert to 1x mode.  So I don’t think it’s the panel issues  

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by NRKstudio
Clarify

[Chaemono]

What are we taking about here, distant subjects looking soft at 1x live view in the EVF or EVF becoming softer in magnified live view?  To bring up latter as an issue is totally baffling. The two iPhone pictures above in form of compressed LUF JPEGs are totally meaningless.  I shot the α7 IV side by side with the SL2 (see #24 and #28 here: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/303396-leica-sl2-dynamic-range/page/2/#comments) and in magnified view, the Sony’s EVF looks less crisp than in 1x live view.  

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Chaemono

[thighslapper]

10 hours ago, digitalfx said:

Interesting...you are right.

If you set auto review to "shutter pressed" you can see the live image and playback back and forth and back...and you can see a clear shift in the image quality

if you use shutter pressed mode you can go from live to playback to live...and its that last change back to live where I see a noticeable decrease in sharpness

 

I use shutter pressed mode all the time. 

I've even changed the jpg settings in case the rendered final image is based on the jpg with higher contrast sharpness settings ..... and again I see NO DIFFERENCE at all. 

Either there is camera to camera variation ...... which for this problem sounds unlikely ...... or some of us have significantly better vision, which again is unlikely as I know I am 6/4, which is well above average. Using the EVF with specs it is marginally sharper as I have a low degree of astigmatism, but again the live image and review are identical. 

There must be some other factor or firmware/settings issue that is causing this as it does not appear to be consistent throughout those that own this camera.

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by thighslapper

[Manicouagan1]

I have been going through the manual and trying to guess which software commands (button pushes, touch screen items) seem like they might impact the real time display and make it fuzzy.  Here are some possibilities in no particular order:

1.  EVF Frame rate 60/120 frames per second

2. Auxiliary displays - (focus peaking etc)

3. Autofocus mode AF-s AF-c

4.  Tracking AF-L AM-L

5.  Pre-focus On/Off

6. Auto review termination - shutter press etc

There are a lot of permutations and combinations of these settings, I have not stumbled on one that consistently improves the real time display.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[SrMi]

2 minutes ago, Manicouagan1 said:

I have been going through the manual and trying to guess which software commands (button pushes, touch screen items) seem like they might impact the real time display and make it fuzzy.  Here are some possibilities in no particular order:

1.  EVF Frame rate 60/120 frames per second

2. Auxiliary displays - (focus peaking etc)

3. Autofocus mode AF-s AF-c

4.  Tracking AF-L AM-L

5.  Pre-focus On/Off

6. Auto review termination - shutter press etc

There are a lot of permutations and combinations of these settings, I have not stumbled on one that consistently improves the real time display.

It has been reported that Pre-focus Off improves the quality of display in EVF. I would expect that EVF display quality is reduced while the camera is doing heavy work (e.g., focusing).