Leica CL CL shutter count

[colmac]

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Looking at a preowned CL. Anybody know how to bring up the shutter count?  Appreciate it.

 

Edited August 12, 2019 by colmac

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[lct]

On 8/12/2019 at 2:54 PM, colmac said:

Looking at a preowned CL. Anybody know how to bring up the shutter count? 

No way sorry. Leica is incapable to understand that we may need to buy or sell its stuff second hand... 

Edited August 13, 2019 by lct

[colmac]

I'm sure Leica CLs record shutter counts somewhere for statistical purposes, e.g. field performance vs product specs. MFT Lumix cameras conceal shutter counts well, but they are accessible to Pana technicians and dexterous users. 😀

[lct]

32 minutes ago, colmac said:

I'm sure Leica CLs record shutter counts somewhere for statistical purposes, e.g. field performance vs product specs. MFT Lumix cameras conceal shutter counts well, but they are accessible to Pana technicians and dexterous users. 😀

I'm sure of one thing only sorry. Shutter counts did work on my M8.2 but since then neither on my M240 nor on my digital CL.

[jaapv]

Shutter count is rather irrelevant with cameras that have electronic shutters and video. A camera may be heavily used and still show a very low number of shutter actuations.

[lct]

52 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Shutter count is rather irrelevant with cameras that have electronic shutters and video. A camera may be heavily used and still show a very low number of shutter actuations.

Then it proves that the shutter is not worn at least. I see zero reason for sellers and buyers to ignore the truth. 

[jaapv]

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As shutters can run for well over 100.000 actuations, I still think that things like wear and damage are far more important. Better a well-cared for 20.000 camera then a 5000 one that has been through the wars.

As most shutter failures are catastrophic and I have never seen a camera with a worn shutter, I don't think that a low number of actuations is any kind of guaranty.

[lct]

Go explain this on e**y or elsewhere. Buyers want objective evidences, and rightly so IMHO. 

[dau]

Why stop at the shutter count? The battery lids have failed on more of my cameras than did the shutters. What about a battery lid actuation counter? While we're at it, add a storage card removal counter. The storage card compartments fail alarmingly often. And focusing? With the modern autofocus lenses, many more components are put under stress by refocusing the lens. I absolutely demand a focus actuation counter. I want objective evidence.

[lct]

16 minutes ago, dau said:

Why stop at the shutter count? The battery lids have failed on more of my cameras than did the shutters. What about a battery lid actuation counter? While we're at it, add a storage card removal counter. The storage card compartments fail alarmingly often. And focusing? With the modern autofocus lenses, many more components are put under stress by refocusing the lens. I absolutely demand a focus actuation counter. I want objective evidence.

The same could be said about cars. Would you buy a car w/o knowing its mileage because the seller assures you that you don't need to count miles more so than gearbox or brakes actuation? Mileage as well as shutter count are objective evidences buyers, at least this one, are after.

[jaapv]

29 minutes ago, lct said:

Go explain this on e**y or elsewhere. Buyers want objective evidences, and rightly so IMHO. 

But the point is that it is not objective. Using the electronic shutter will keep the count on zero, despite the camera being worn to the bone. The same for video. Getting dust in the shutter will kill it after relatively few exposures.

That some people want meaningless figures doesn't make the numbers more relevant.

[lct]

2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

But the point is that it is not objective. Using the electronic shutter will keep the count on zero, despite the camera being worn to the bone. The same for video.

But again it proves something objective, the good health of the shutter. Nothing can excuse that lack of transparency to me. YMMV.

[jaapv]

No it does not prove the health of the shutter. They fail because of mechanical reasons, not because of wear. Shutters don’t wear down for many tens of thousands of actuations, up to hundreds of thousands. The chance of a breakdown of a fairly new shutter is about the same as a well-used one. 

[lct]

Go tell this on e**y or elsewhere again. Just a matter of truth. If you don't need to know it so much the better for you .

[jaapv]

Why should anybody tell it? Shuttercount unknown by design. Endof.

[lct]

I love it. « How many teeth have you? Number unknown by design, endof » 

[jaapv]

That is correct. About 10% of humans lack wisdom teeth, and agenetic premolars and incisors are quite common.

[Bewithabob]

For example, Nikon rates the D7000 to 160k actuations, the D800 to 300k. The D3 was rated even higher...

Not sure how Leica rates shutter life on its cameras. But it would nice to know if you’re buying a used Leica with high rating and purported higher value

A Leica with 10k actuations is worth considerably more than one with 100k, as there is more useful life remaining, and everything depreciates unless highly collectible

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[jaapv]

Yes, but unfortunately you’ll have to judge the complete condition of the camera instead of one minor aspect. But then again, that goes for everybody, so it will not impact the value. As shutters barely wear, the useful life argument is moot. Anybody taking 100000 images a year will buy a new camera. And wear the whole camera to the bone. The nice  used ones will probably never see a count even approaching the rated life in their entire career. 

[ramarren]

I've sold many many digital cameras on Ebay. I've never presented a shutter count, only twice had someone ask what it was (I estimate by looking at my Lightroom catalog and seeing how many exposures I have from that camera in that case), and always gotten good, fair prices for my gear. 

People who obsess over shutter counts and things like that are wasting their/my time, and I'd rather not deal with them. Someone who asks me how a camera was used is acting far more sensibly with respect to evaluating the amount of wear a particular camera might have been subjected to. For example: A camera with a mechanically driven shutter being used primarily for sequence photography is going to have more wear on components, even if it only has 10,000 actuations, then a camera that has 100,000 actuations but was used for single shot happy snaps. 

G