M9 Shutter Life expectancy

[Gregm61]

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There are plenty of Nikon FE/FM’s and Canon A series bodies, among many, many other lines/models from the 1970’s that probably were never figured to still be clicking away 40 years later.

No doubt in my mind the sensor’s more likely to fail first in most digital M’s than the shutter.

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[Ko.Fe.]

54 minutes ago, Gregm61 said:

There are plenty of Nikon FE/FM’s and Canon A series bodies, among many, many other lines/models from the 1970’s that probably were never figured to still be clicking away 40 years later.

No doubt in my mind the sensor’s more likely to fail first in most digital M’s than the shutter.

I haven't seen many A, but some I have seen were with functional issues.

Plenty of Nikons as is, for parts on Ebay as well.

I'm not aware of any failed sensors in digital M rather one in M9 and some hot pixels to be remapped by Leica service.

I have digital cameras with twenty years old sensors. No failure.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Ko.Fe.

[jdlaing]

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

 

Sorry, this is bollocks.

Seiko-Copal make the shutters for virtually all camera makers. Including Nikon (probably Canon too, I don't know for sure). Leica is one of the few that has some models with their own shutters, i.e. the S series. And calling clarifying "wiggle-wiggle" is downright nasty.

Read again: the average shutter count of M cameras coming into Customer Service, no matter for what reason, is about 50.000.  There are quite a few with well-functioning shutters of over 150.000.
The highest shutter count reported on this forum was an M8 with 350.000 on the clock and still going strong, and yes, there was a spate of failing shutters reported here, about twenty. Those were M 8/ M8.2 cameras and a few (two or three) early M9s, back in 2008-2010.

And of course it is unwise to state an explicit life expectancy for a part that may break with use. Leica cannot take responsibility for a grain of sand between the blades, a user touching the shutter blades, etc. Did you get a stated life expectancy for your car from the manufacturer beyond the guaranty? Of for your coffee grinder, for that matter?

Nidek Copal.

[jaapv]

5 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Which bullocks are bigger? Assuming what Leica doesn't makes thier shutters or assuming and putting in written what they lasts for only 50K ?

Where do you read that they last for 50K?  To be more precise, Jono's original sentence could be misread, the new text is more clear.

[Ko.Fe.]

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

Where do you read that they last for 50K?  To be more precise, Jono's original sentence could be misread, the new text is more clear.

Now it is fine

I have 8K in two years. If average seen in service is 50K, I have ten years to go.

[Topsy]

13 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

Get a classic Leica film camera, then the shutter life should be 50+ years.

 

I just got a classic M2 and guess what............ it had to go to repair for a shutter problem which the repair guy says a CLA will fix.  It is in pristine condition but probably been in someones cupboard for many years. Hey-ho.

[AceVentura1986]

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23 hours ago, jonoslack said:

It isn't correct

I was misled, and I've changed the web page - there is no mean shutter life for the M9, but many have lasted more than 3 times that.

 

No, I must disagree here. I am certain Seiko-Copal has internal numbers showing the mean life expectancy of these shutters as this would be standard practice in the design and manufacturing of any product. The OEM needs to know how long it can expect a product to last in order to determine whether a given design is worth the time and money to manufacture. Further, camera manufacturers would need to know this as well for warranty issues so I am also certain that Leica has these numbers as well. That they do not release the numbers is a different issue but the numbers are there. 

[jaapv]

As I said - the end user normally doesn't the get mean life expectancy for a car, bicycle or most technical products and certainly not for the parts, for  the simple reason that the manufacturer cannot control the conditions of use. Laboratory endurance tests cannot predict real-life conditions, despite being useful for the designers of the end product..

[ianman]

12 hours ago, jaapv said:

Where do you read that they last for 50K?  To be more precise, Jono's original sentence could be misread, the new text is more clear.

Well, the first sentence was pretty clear but wrong as Jono was given wrong information, and I think the new one is not clear. It just adds confusion and doesn't add any real information. I would either leave out the text between  parenthesis or write "(2000 is very low)".

[rivi1969]

7 minutes ago, ianman said:

Well, the first sentence was pretty clear but wrong as Jono was given wrong information, and I think the new one is not clear. It just adds confusion and doesn't add any real information. I would either leave out the text between  parenthesis or write "(2000 is very low)".

Jono was not giving wrong information. Leica Customer service told me the same thing about the M9 50,000 life expectancy. Funny that people in this forums know better than Leica itself about their products. “Expectancy” doesn’t mean they will suddenly die at click 50001.

Quote from the email I got:

”The shutter have all less than 2000 shots. We design it to last for 50,000.”

🤔

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by rivi1969

[ianman]

Do you not understand the difference between "was given" and "was giving" ??? FFS this is really going haywire because people don't read or don't understand.

[earleygallery]

Canon state shutter life expectancies, most models are 100-150K. Some of the older models were 50K so probably about right for the M9.

Actual shutter life varies by some margin. 

[ianman]

In the early days of the M9 I recall seeing the figure of 100k mentioned although that could have been picked out of thin air, who knows.

[Charadis]

16 hours ago, rivi1969 said:

Jono was not giving wrong information. Leica Customer service told me the same thing about the M9 50,000 life expectancy. Funny that people in this forums know better than Leica itself about their products. “Expectancy” doesn’t mean they will suddenly die at click 50001.

Quote from the email I got:

”The shutter have all less than 2000 shots. We design it to last for 50,000.”

🤔

 

I got the same email mentioning this, which made me concerned at first. Having never owned a rangefinder before, it definitely leaves me wondering if a refurbed M9 should be my first

[TomB_tx]

For us old film shooters 50000 expectancy isn’t an issue, as our habits are set not to waste film, but to be selective in shooting. I’ve had my M9 almost 10 years, and average about 1000 shots a year on it.

Of course I also shoot a variety of film cameras, so no one camera is used constantly, and I added an M10 a couple years ago. Still, if you don’t “spray” but select shots, 50K may outlast most electronic products.

 

[pedaes]

13 minutes ago, TomB_tx said:

For us old film shooters 50000 expectancy isn’t an issue, as our habits are set not to waste film, but to be selective in shooting. I’ve had my M9 almost 10 years, and average about 1000 shots a year on it.

Of course I also shoot a variety of film cameras, so no one camera is used constantly, and I added an M10 a couple years ago. Still, if you don’t “spray” but select shots, 50K may outlast most electronic products.

 

True for me also. I was surprised this Thread started with a statement that "the average shutter count seen in customer care is 50,000", which seems a very high average to me.

[ianman]

15 minutes ago, pedaes said:

True for me also. I was surprised this Thread started with a statement that "the average shutter count seen in customer care is 50,000", which seems a very high average to me.

For people who've only ever used digital I suppose it seems normal or low. Like most film users, I tend to shoot much less.

I think my M9 must be reaching the 10,000 mark. So that's an average of 1000/year, and that seems a lot to me.

[Rus]

Mine had a shutter issue at 90K mark back in 2014. After the repair, which didn't change the shutter blades, it went on to around 130K, at which time the camera had the sensor replaced with the 2nd gen type and the shutter count was zeroed. Now it is over 60K again. Fingers crossed it will continue to kick XD

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[Ko.Fe.]

On 8/4/2019 at 12:07 PM, TomB_tx said:

For us old film shooters 50000 expectancy isn’t an issue, as our habits are set not to waste film, but to be selective in shooting. I’ve had my M9 almost 10 years, and average about 1000 shots a year on it.

Of course I also shoot a variety of film cameras, so no one camera is used constantly, and I added an M10 a couple years ago. Still, if you don’t “spray” but select shots, 50K may outlast most electronic products.

 

In old times I was taking maximum five or so rolls per year. Only much later on I started to take pictures on film more than just a tourist and few family pictures.

1000 is one bulk per year. Or 28 film cassettes of 36 frames.

I usually have at least twice than this.

Just by taking pictures where and then I want. No double takers.

[Alberti]

I once saw some photo's of an M8 that was installed in a speed camera box in [if I recall correctly] Switserland, it ran from a separate powersupply. It might have gotten far upwards of 100k actuations per camera per year.