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M9 Shutter Life expectancy


jonoslack

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Hi There

There have been a few questions about this, so I checked up and thought it was worth posting in another thread:

There isn't an official shutter life expectancy for the M9.

Customer Care have seen lots of cameras with a shutter count of 150,000 and more, however 50,000 is something like an average count.

All the best

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42 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

Customer Care have seen lots of cameras with a shutter count of 150,000 and more, however 50,000 is something like an average count.

 

ok, but why were the cameras in CC? Specifically due to shutter issues? If not it means that 50.000 is just the average number of photos taken with M9s.

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31 minutes ago, ianman said:

ok, but why were the cameras in CC? Specifically due to shutter issues? If not it means that 50.000 is just the average number of photos taken with M9s.

Hi Ian - I guess for any number of reasons, but I don't think I'm going to get any more information than that! (sorry)

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1 hour ago, jaapv said:

With all the caveats about averages in statistics - CS is likely to see a far higher percentage of failures than the users as a group.

Indeed Jaap - even if the statistic relates only to shutter problems it only means that the average number of shutter releases on FAILED shutters is 50,000 - certainly not the average number of releases on all cameras. 

incidentally - 150,000 is more than 1 roll of film per day for 10 years (quite a lot really!)

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21 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

Hi Ian - I guess for any number of reasons, but I don't think I'm going to get any more information than that! (sorry)

Thanks for the info but there is a really big difference between saying that a shutter is designed to last for 50,000 actuations and the average shutter actuation on all M9s that pass through Leica CC - for whatever reason - is 50,000.

It's not for me to say of course, but I guess you have a large following and that is quite a bold statement you wrote in your article.

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32 minutes ago, ianman said:

Thanks for the info but there is a really big difference between saying that a shutter is designed to last for 50,000 actuations and the average shutter actuation on all M9s that pass through Leica CC - for whatever reason - is 50,000.

It's not for me to say of course, but I guess you have a large following and that is quite a bold statement you wrote in your article.

I agree - it's a huge difference - it seems I was wrong (mea culpa) - but I was only reporting precisely what I was told. I have changed it on the web page by the way.

. . . and of course it is for you to say

 

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If I recall correctly from my Canon days, shutters are rated at mean shutter life. This figure represents the 50% number. Essentially, 1/2 of all shutters will be expected to fail below this figure and 1/2 above it. My Canon 1D series cameras all had a mean life expectancy of between 200,000 and 250,000.  Even still, the only 1D that ever failed me was a 1Ds at 40,000 clicks, well below its rated life of 250,000. FWIW, the only Leica to have failed me is my only M8 at about 25,000, again well below the (assumably correct) rating of 50,000. 

If correct, 50,000 is an exceedingly low mean shutter life for such expensive cameras but, what are we to do?   I’m not sure, actually, if Leica are Velben goods or Griffey goods, really. 

 

veblen good is a good for which demand increases as the price increases, because of its exclusive nature and appeal as a status symbol. ... However, a Veblen good is generally a high-quality, coveted product, incontrast to a Giffen good, which is an inferior product that does not have easily available substitutes.May 23, 2019

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1 hour ago, AceVentura1986 said:

 

If correct, 50,000 is an exceedingly low mean shutter life for such expensive cameras but, what are we to do?   I’m not sure, actually, if Leica are Velben goods or Griffey goods, really. 

 

 

It isn't correct

I was misled, and I've changed the web page - there is no mean shutter life for the M9, but many have lasted more than 3 times that.

 

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4 minutes ago, ianman said:

I know.... some people just don't take the time to read even a few posts.

There are so many (some positive and some negative) to be honest I think this one will drift into obscurity (not too many reads).

The one that irritates me most of all is: 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

You'll notice I haven't typed it - for obvious reasons. it's such a lovely lens, with real sharpness and a gentle and delicious bokeh!

 

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I know a professional photographer that had a Canon 5D mark ii, which was supposed to have a 150,000 shutter life expectancy, he stopped counting when it reached 1 MILLION. Literally the camera had no outside coverings, no grip, just bare metal like if it has been in an explosion and the thing kept clicking. My M8 has 4750 clicks so I wouldn't worry too much about that lol.

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We have M8 user reporting shutter failure at one million on this forum, year or so ago.

I'm glad the article's categorical statement about 50K shutter life was changed to "wiggle-wiggle, might be 150K".

I understand situation. Leica doesn't make those shutters, comparing to Canonikon. So it is not wise to promise something from third party.

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20 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

We have M8 user reporting shutter failure at one million on this forum, year or so ago.

I'm glad the article's categorical statement about 50K shutter life was changed to "wiggle-wiggle, might be 150K".

I understand situation. Leica doesn't make those shutters, comparing to Canonikon. So it is not wise to promise something from third party.

Sorry, this is bollocks.

Seiko and Copal make the shutters for virtually all camera makers. Including Nikon (probably Canon too, I don't know for sure). Leica is one of the few that has some models with their own shutters, i.e. the S series. And calling clarifying "wiggle-wiggle" is downright nasty.

Read again: the average shutter count of M cameras coming into Customer Service, no matter for what reason, is about 50.000.  There are quite a few with well-functioning shutters of over 150.000.
The highest shutter count reported on this forum was an M8 with 350.000 on the clock and still going strong, and yes, there was a spate of failing shutters reported here, about twenty. Those were M 8/ M8.2 cameras and a few (two or three) early M9s, back in 2008-2010.

And of course it is unwise to state an explicit life expectancy for a part that may break with use. Leica cannot take responsibility for a grain of sand between the blades, a user touching the shutter blades, etc. Did you get a stated life expectancy for your car from the manufacturer beyond the guaranty? Of for your coffee grinder, for that matter?

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58 minutes ago, jaapv said:

 

Sorry, this is bollocks.

Seiko-Copal make the shutters for virtually all camera makers. Including Nikon (probably Canon too, I don't know for sure). Leica is one of the few that has some models with their own shutters, i.e. the S series. And calling clarifying "wiggle-wiggle" is downright nasty.

Read again: the average shutter count of M cameras coming into Customer Service, no matter for what reason, is about 50.000.  There are quite a few with well-functioning shutters of over 150.000.
The highest shutter count reported on this forum was an M8 with 350.000 on the clock and still going strong, and yes, there was a spate of failing shutters reported here, about twenty. Those were M 8/ M8.2 cameras and a few (two or three) early M9s, back in 2008-2010.

And of course it is unwise to state an explicit life expectancy for a part that may break with use. Leica cannot take responsibility for a grain of sand between the blades, a user touching the shutter blades, etc. Did you get a stated life expectancy for your car from the manufacturer beyond the guaranty? Of for your coffee grinder, for that matter?

Which bullocks are bigger? Assuming what Leica doesn't makes thier shutters or assuming and putting in written what they lasts for only 50K ? :)

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1 hour ago, Pyrogallol said:

Get a classic Leica film camera, then the shutter life should be 50+ years.

 

If in regular use, it will require at least CLA unce in a while. Couple of CLAs and one curtain replace will cost the same as shutter replacement in M9.

 

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