S007 Body Design Outdated?

[Jeff S]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Again, we’ve been told that S3 has new color array (with better reds and skin tones), in addition to resolution bump.  No other statements other than same form factor.   But, if this is the end of the line (or at least in the current configuration), I wouldn’t  be surprised if there’s nothing else substantial.

Jeff

[Milan_S]

I do wonder what the current S users expect from the S3 in order to stay with the system or upgrade to the S3 (knowing it's the same body type, ovf, ...)

Will the resolution upgrade to 64MP, higher iso, new color array and hopefully improved AF be enough to upgrade or stay with the S system? 

 

[Stuart Richardson]

For me it would be good color (seems very likely), truly usable 4k video, hopefully full sensor, and a price that is reasonable, or at least generous trade-in deals for current owners. If it is a 64mp S007 at 24,000 euros, I will likely cut my losses and go to Fuji.

[ZHNL]

46 minutes ago, Milan_S said:

I do wonder what the current S users expect from the S3 in order to stay with the system or upgrade to the S3 (knowing it's the same body type, ovf, ...)

Will the resolution upgrade to 64MP, higher iso, new color array and hopefully improved AF be enough to upgrade or stay with the S system? 

 

Even I complained, I feel this is a good list for me to stay with S. (depend on price of course) IQ and handling are all that matters. AF is cherry on top. I don't even use AF much with S system. 

Though I would admit I don't think this is good enough for general public or for a successful system to thrive, Why there is no more hardware upgrade after years is beyond me. 

[xiaubauu2009]

8 hours ago, ZHNL said:

Well, for FUJI, I actually think GFX50S was decent shaped in term of handling. However, I can't say the same with GFX100. A product is not just about ending results. I am not only talking about how it looks but also how functional its design will be in field either on tripod or hand holding. Also we don't know how responsive it will be in hand with EVF and 100M file, there is still many little things that are not on spec sheet. No matter what, I applaud for FUJI's hard work to bring so many upgrade in such a short cycle compare to what we have here in Leica S. 

S is a fine system and still is. I love it. The problem with the system is S007 was announced at 2014 and 5 years past, what exactly Leica has done with it other than boost resolution. If you look each upgrade of M or from S2 to S006 to S007, there seems always show some works have been done. What make Leica think it is enough for just boost resolution of the system and hope it can fight well in this market? Any reasonable customers who invested significant money, time and faith will be wanting more about the system, would you agree?

 I haven't seen final detail of S3 yet, I am really hoping I am totally wrong about it for it has only resolution upgrade. finger crossed.   

Well, the Leica Color profile is still unique, and that is enough for people to want to use. 

I went out this morning sunrise to try to capture the Bund with a Leica M + Cambo Actus and some Rodenstock enlarging lens for shifting and stitching... the experience is still pretty nice, and I can just take the M down and turn it into a street photo camera pretty easily. I think this is my ideal travel tech cam combo. Sure, operation is not ideal, but on the M10P, it's pretty close for focusing checking etc.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

M10P + Rodenstock WA Rodagon 60mm f/4, Portrait stitch 3 images.

Edited June 6, 2019 by xiaubauu2009

[LeicaS2]

The form factor of the S is excellent and any modification is unnecessary.  I don’t need or want a rear LED swinging display since I use Leica PHOTOS with excellent flexibility. I also believe in five years the S will be the only DSLR in medium format and be more desirable for that reason. Leica stayed with the niche of a rangefinder, and I hope they stay with an S optical viewfinder. The S viewfinder is a wonderful pleasure. Expect Leica PHOTOS to continue to improve. 

[Vieri]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

The design and ergonomics of the Leica S series cameras (and lenses) are fantastic. As near perfect in as small a body as you can get in Medium Format without going mirrorless.

However, technology evolves, and the EVF technology - which IMHO is one of the most important evolutions of camera tech, and especially so for landscape photography - allowed designers of new systems to go smaller and more compact in their new Medium Format offer.

While this doesn't make the S design "bad" in any way, it definitely might make it a less "appealing" design than what you'd find on newer, mirrorless offers, and especially on the X1D.

In a way, I think the Leica S came just a bit "too early", both for Leica as a company which caused the project to get less attention and significant updates than it deserved, and because it just made it miss the mirrorless train: jumping on that train now for the S designers is difficult, because now you have great lenses but designed for a mirror-based flange distance. Even with a mirrorless S3, this would cancel the size advantages of mirrorless because you'd still need the flange distance for the S lenses to work, either in-body or with an adapter.

Again, obviously this doesn't make the S design any "bad", nor it makes the images the S produces any "worse" just because it's a older design OVF camera  

Best regards,

Vieri

[dave.gt]

Well, the Reddit interview with Andreas Kauffman was dead on topic.

Overcoffee this morning I amused myself with this quick compilation:

Just one of the reasons I hate modern cameras but bask in the simplicity of the Leica S

 

Camera manuals:

Hasselblad 1000F - 32 pages

H2 - 90 pages

H5D-50c wifi - 117 pages

Hasselblad X1D-50c - 150 pages

Leica S 006 - 74 pages

Leica X1 - 125 pages

Leica M10 - 224 pages

Nikon D850 - 374 pages

Nikon D2x - 265 pages

Nikon D3100 - 207 pages

Nikon F80 - 114 pages

Nikon Fe2 - 63 pages

Nikkormat FTn - 31 pages

Rolleiflex 4x4 - 44 pages

____________

 

And even more shocking, is the number of buttons not even considering the menus and sub-menus!

 

Approximate counts:

 

Leica S - 4 large buttons/1 speed dial/1 wheel/a joystick and the assignable function button and AE lock.

 

Nikon D850 - at last count there are 22 buttons, a half dozen switches and levers, two wheels, plus all the touch control menu options on screen.😮

 

I won't even even get into all the menu items.

 

Leica philosophy is alive and well, simplicity rules and I am looking at the S for the future. 

 

***Apologies for the font sizes... iPhone typing sucks.

Edited July 14, 2019 by dave.gt

[LeicaS2]

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2019/07/breakfast-with-dr-andreas-kaufmann/

rather than reddit.

I like the good doctor’s mention of the three dimensional feel through an optical viewfinder.

[dave.gt]

27 minutes ago, LeicaS2 said:

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2019/07/breakfast-with-dr-andreas-kaufmann/

rather than reddit.

I like the good doctor’s mention of the three dimensional feel through an optical viewfinder.

Yes, good catch. Not reddit whatever that is...I HATE autocorrect on iPhones! LOL, I can envision the start of a major world war because of autocorrect! Whether it be from voice texts, emails or even orders typed on munchkin keyboards on smart phones, it could happen!:)

Dr. Kaufmann did mention the 3D quality of the VF and I, too, thought that was an exquisite way to describe it.

I am rather spoiled by it myself.

Edited July 14, 2019 by dave.gt

[Stuart Richardson]

I really hope they keep the OVF, but perhaps they can make it work with the EVF for the M series and other cameras...then EVF fans can have that as needed. In general, I have the S1 and even though that is the "best" EVF, it still pales in comparison to an OVF in terms of clarity, handling of high contrast scenes and for being able work in very low light. EVF certainly has some advantages, but ultimately looking at the world through a tv screen vs a window is not how I prefer to work. It seems like the OVF gives you an enormous advantage, especially when you have a live view screen on the back of the camera anyway for when you truly need a 1 to 1 view of the sensor output before capture. 

[Jeff S]

It would also be nice to have IBIS for greater handholding flexibility, but possibly not doable without sacrificing size/ergonomics, and seemingly not part of Leica’s design philosophy.

Jeff

[LeicaS2]

The good Doctor says there are two camps on the direction of the future of the S, and listening to the market place will influence the eventual decision. I believe on the S they pay particular attention to what studio fashion photographers want. I am not one now, and have no idea if an electronic viewfinder is important to them when so much of their work was tethered to a laptop. Same question about IBIS.

I’m just pleased they are discussing a future.

[albireo_double]

Most studio fashion photographers use whatever tethers with C1 - Canon, Nikon mostly. Higher end Phase One of course. Some minority with Hasselblad and also scanned film, for the “look”. Problematic tethering and lack of C1 support are the biggest obstacle regarding the studio use of Leica S and SL cameras, no matter how much Leica wish to position these as “fashion shooters’ cameras”. I love my S007 untethered on location but recently reach for a Nikon or Phase for studio projects.

[erlingmm]

7 hours ago, albireo_double said:

Most studio fashion photographers use whatever tethers with C1 - Canon, Nikon mostly. Higher end Phase One of course. Some minority with Hasselblad and also scanned film, for the “look”. Problematic tethering and lack of C1 support are the biggest obstacle regarding the studio use of Leica S and SL cameras, no matter how much Leica wish to position these as “fashion shooters’ cameras”. I love my S007 untethered on location but recently reach for a Nikon or Phase for studio projects.

Maybe the news we are waiting for is C1 integration?

[albertknappmd]

I have owned all three iterations and have always been impressed by the ergonomics, the color palette, the amazing lenses, the ruggedness, the dependability and the overall build quality, just to name the most salient traits.

That being said, nothing is perfect but my main wish is for better and multifield AF as well as a top of the line EVF.

I am in no rush as the 007 itself is still the best in class...

Albert

[davidmknoble]

@albertknappmd - I have always found your images with the S spectacular.  

I think the body of the S is bulky and heavy, but it really offsets the lens well.  So, it remains balanced, IMHO.  The underlying body is a tank and when I shoot in the rain, it is easy to keep a grip and when in the snow, my gloved hands can hold it well too.  In terms of an EVF,  after using the SL for several years and the EVF on the M's, the optical VF on the S is a joy.  It is so clear and crisp it begs taking images.  I have to say, it is always nerve-racking to wonder if the mirror needs alignment, but I'll put up with that for the VF until an EVF is equally as good.

I also use the M system very hard.  For me the difference is this:  I shoot the S intentionally, mostly with a tripod and filters, and work it hard, weather or not.  I shoot the M as an image arises, keeping it around my shoulder whenever I'm out - compact and easy to pack and carry.

I don't think the S is at the end of the line, even with the S3.  Leica said they designed the lenses to resolve up to a 100mb 35 x 40 sensor.  That has a ways to go.  The SL focuses much faster, but the S007 just produces images and color easily.

just my thoughts...

[Photon42]

Leica should buy Hasselblad from DJI. Just dreaming of all the benefits 😇. S-mount Adapter for the X1D series. Guaranteed preservation of great legacy. Longer term investment policy. Nikon Flash protocol for Leica. Proper tethered shooting options ... whatever, ignore me 😶

[alan.y]

11 hours ago, Photon42 said:

Leica should buy Hasselblad from DJI. Just dreaming of all the benefits 😇. S-mount Adapter for the X1D series. Guaranteed preservation of great legacy. Longer term investment policy. Nikon Flash protocol for Leica. Proper tethered shooting options ... whatever, ignore me 😶

4:3 aspect ratio using the whole image circles of S lenses would be nice

 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[xiaubauu2009]

On 11/4/2019 at 3:38 PM, Photon42 said:

Leica should buy Hasselblad from DJI. Just dreaming of all the benefits 😇. S-mount Adapter for the X1D series. Guaranteed preservation of great legacy. Longer term investment policy. Nikon Flash protocol for Leica. Proper tethered shooting options ... whatever, ignore me 😶

Most likely it will be bought by Matsushita/Panasonic, and steer the camera into a videography territory like what they have been hinting, in fact done with the SL2...