When will S3 be available? {merged}

[tom0511]

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If we look at number of new worlds 1st features the Fuji clearly wins.

However a camera (system) is more than the sum of its new features.

And we all do not know yet how the new features will work in reality.

For my taste: Fuji tries to pack everything in the new camera, maybe too much, and Leica - IMO - should have offered a bit more than a new sensor, or hopefully will at least adapt the price if they do not invest much R&D in the S3.

As a S007 user I wish for more AF points and faster locking AF, otherwise I do lie that switching from one generation to next I do not have to adapt to a new user interface.

 

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[BernardC]

2 hours ago, frame-it said:

DP-review>>

EVF clarity and resolution excellent. Free from the pixelation and noticeable lag which affected the finder of the 50S, viewfinder unit is removable, but when the GFX 50S finder is attached to the GFX 100, they won’t get the benefit of the greatly improved resolution of the newer EVF

DPR said that the EVF was better than the GFX, and similar to the X-H1. If those are both the same, then DPR got it wrong.

Wouldn't be the first time that a web site got something wrong about a prototype camera.

[frame-it]

3 hours ago, BernardC said:

DPR said that the EVF was better than the GFX, and similar to the X-H1. If those are both the same, then DPR got it wrong.

Wouldn't be the first time that a web site got something wrong about a prototype camera.

you are absolutely right about that.many websites do get stuff wrong.

DPreview>> "A major and very welcome change in the GFX 100 compared to the earlier 50S is the electronic viewfinder. At Fujifilm's request I have to be a little vague about the exact specifications of the finder, but I can tell you that in terms of clarity and resolution it compares well to the excellent EVF in the X-H1, and is free from the pixelation and noticeable lag which affected the finder of the 50S, especially when autofocus was initiated."

[frame-it]

4 hours ago, John McMaster said:

As ever, what is your output?  If on-screen or A4 what is the point...

john

Oh, i wont buy the 100s, im happy with the XH1, GFX50R, and my SL.

 

this long reply was for Mr.BernardC to clarify the EVF discussion.

 

[xiaubauu2009]

4 hours ago, frame-it said:

you are absolutely right about that.many websites do get stuff wrong.

DPreview>> "A major and very welcome change in the GFX 100 compared to the earlier 50S is the electronic viewfinder. At Fujifilm's request I have to be a little vague about the exact specifications of the finder, but I can tell you that in terms of clarity and resolution it compares well to the excellent EVF in the X-H1, and is free from the pixelation and noticeable lag which affected the finder of the 50S, especially when autofocus was initiated."

The body is just unnecessarily large! Said to house the IBIS, but I doubt that's the reason, Fuji is trying to create what they thought is a 'pro' class looking camera ala Canon 1Dx series and Nikon D5 series.... They should have make the vertical grip an option... or they want to left that to 100R as a product light that will separate from the 100S line... minus some feature such as IBIS etc etc...

Anyway, will not jump into the GFX straight away, want to see what they come up next after this 100s... It's just too large for use on a Cambo Actus....

Edited February 13, 2019 by xiaubauu2009

[Photon42]

9 hours ago, tom0511 said:

If we look at number of new worlds 1st features the Fuji clearly wins.

However a camera (system) is more than the sum of its new features.

And we all do not know yet how the new features will work in reality.

For my taste: Fuji tries to pack everything in the new camera, maybe too much, and Leica - IMO - should have offered a bit more than a new sensor, or hopefully will at least adapt the price if they do not invest much R&D in the S3.

As a S007 user I wish for more AF points and faster locking AF, otherwise I do lie that switching from one generation to next I do not have to adapt to a new user interface.

 

Maybe a stupid question from one who did not follow the S3 announcements really - are we sure that just the sensor has been updated? I could think of overall faster and more fluid operation, new live view features, higher res back LCD, faster auto focus.

And yes - a system is more than its parts and, more specifically, technically easily comparable features. I have not had a single Leica, which wasn't inferior to competitors in DPreview terms. Did not stop me from buying more so far 😎 

[helged]

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For the most updated description of the S3 (at least as far as I can tell), see David Farkas blog at the Reddotforum: https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2018/09/photokina-2018-the-leica-s3/. The body is as S007, but with a new 64 mp sensor, new colour filter array, altered processing to avoid heating, but with the same Maestro II processor.

[frame-it]

14 minutes ago, helged said:

For the most updated description of the S3 (at least as far as I can tell), see David Farkas blog at the Reddotforum: https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2018/09/photokina-2018-the-leica-s3/. The body is as S007, but with a new 64 mp sensor, new colour filter array, altered processing to avoid heating, but with the same Maestro II processor.

interesting thing is the guy who explored the m240 firmware for fun discovered the maestro processor is actually made by fujitsu

[ynp]

11 minutes ago, frame-it said:

the maestro processor is actually made by fujitsu

It’s the known that Leica uses Fujitsu chips since the S2. 

[frame-it]

1 minute ago, ynp said:

It’s the known that Leica uses Fujitsu chips since the S2. 

i recently learnt that .....anyways it makes sense to upgrade the processor when going from 37MP to 64MP

[frame-it]

11 hours ago, BernardC said:

Wouldn't be the first time that a web site got something wrong about a prototype camera.

very true...especially these click-bait rumor sites

A Japanese site mentions this "ピクセルシフトマルチショット" >>Pixel Shift Multi Shot.......

- 動画はH265コーデック、400Mbpsで4K30p
- 6月終わりまでに発売
- 価格は10000ユーロ
- 連写は5コマ/秒（GFX50SとGFX50Rは3コマ/秒）
- センサーは100MPの裏面照射型IMX461
- このセンサーは既にPhase Oneのカメラで使用されている
- 価格は10000ドル前後（富士フイルムのマネージャーが9995ドルと発言）
- 発表は2019年の第2四半期
- 4K30p 4:2:0 10bit内部収録
- 4K30p 4:2:2 10bit外部収録
- 4K30pはクロップなし（富士フイルムのマネージャーの発言）
- ピクセルシフトマルチショット
- 位相差検出を画面全域でカバー
- 画像処理エンジンはX Processor4
- 耐低温-10度
- 5軸手ブレ補正

- Video is H265 codec, 4K30p at 400 Mbps
- Release by the end of June
- The price is 10000 euros
- Continuous shooting is 5 frames per second (3 frames / sec for GFX 50 S and GFX 50 R)
- Sensor is backside illuminated IMX 461 with 100 MP
- This sensor has already been used with the Phase One camera
- The price is around 10000 (Fujifilm manager said 9995 dollars)
- The announcement is in the second quarter of 2019
- 4K30p 4: 2: 0 10bit internal recording
- 4K30p 4: 2: 2 10 bit external recording
- 4K 30p has no cropping (remark by Fujifilm's manager)
- Pixel Shift Multi Shot
- Cover phase difference detection throughout the screen
- Image processing engine X Processor 4
- Low temperature resistance - 10 degrees
- 5 Axis hand vibration reduction

[BernardC]

2 hours ago, frame-it said:

- This sensor has already been used with the Phase One camera

 

- 4K30p 4: 2: 0 10bit internal recording
- 4K30p 4: 2: 2 10 bit external recording
- 4K 30p has no cropping (remark by Fujifilm's manager)
 

PhaseOne doesn't offer a "small" (44x33) MF 100 MP back. They only offer larger (53*40) medium format backs now. They used to offer a small 50MP back as their "low cost" option.

It will be interesting to see which camera has better video between the Fuji and the S3. Both have similar specs. It's all a bit moot anyway: anyone who wants to shoot "medium format video" will use a Red or Arriflex. I suspect that the only video footage we will see from either camera will be manufacturer-sponsored promos, and owner "test footage" on YT.

There is no such thing as "no cropping" 4K (DCI or UHD) from a 4:3 sensor. That manager probably meant they use the whole width of the sensor.

[ynp]

There is an industrial P1 camera with the new 100 mpx sensor 

[xiaubauu2009]

It's the same sensor tech as the IQ4 150mp, just smaller in size.

However, Fujifilm's GFX series all have specialized micro lens design to increase sharpness. And there's the protective glass at 9mm away from the sensor making it resistant to dust appearing on files. I have never ever need to clean the sensor or even do any dust removal in post even when I am using it on the Cambo Actus like a digital back. But it also mean that adapting wider angle lens on it will not be as good as it might generate internal reflection...

Phaseone DB is design for their XF system and also to be use on a tech cam. Very different usage, both have its ups and downs. But to say Fujifilm is not as good as Phaseone's is really just rubbish. I own both system and I can tell both has its merits.

This 100s features, beside the butt ugly look and stupidly large size is what every photographer want to have in their camera (I am sure if S3 was announce with these features, our S gang will be jumping up and down with joy), I don't understand why the perceived bad quality/negative response and attempt to put down an otherwise excellent system that has clearly trying to make the MF world a better place...

Edited February 14, 2019 by xiaubauu2009

[Photon42]

Reactions are what they are, because this is a Leica forum, not a Fuji forum 😂 I adore Fuji to take on all this investment and engineering challenges. If you would have told me they will come out with MF for the masses, when they announced their first X100, you would have read total disbelief in my face. Most certainly they will come out with at least one more smaller body at some point.

The Fuji cameras just did not transport the same feel (haptics, interface, looks) for me as the respective Leicas, when I tried them. Maybe I should try again. The one camera where I see potential for me is the Hassy XxD series, if they ever add a proper in body shutter and allow for fast prime lenses. Central shutter becomes less relevant with the advent of advanced flash technology. I still think the double shutter approach of the S was visionary. You can have the cake and eat it - it just costs double 😎

 

[xiaubauu2009]

53 minutes ago, Photon42 said:

Reactions are what they are, because this is a Leica forum, not a Fuji forum 😂 I adore Fuji to take on all this investment and engineering challenges. If you would have told me they will come out with MF for the masses, when they announced their first X100, you would have read total disbelief in my face. Most certainly they will come out with at least one more smaller body at some point.

The Fuji cameras just did not transport the same feel (haptics, interface, looks) for me as the respective Leicas, when I tried them. Maybe I should try again. The one camera where I see potential for me is the Hassy XxD series, if they ever add a proper in body shutter and allow for fast prime lenses. Central shutter becomes less relevant with the advent of advanced flash technology. I still think the double shutter approach of the S was visionary. You can have the cake and eat it - it just costs double 😎

 

The XD series is sweet camera but it has really rubbish control and firmware. Feel like they didn't even test the camera enough before releasing. Slow and lousy lens selection. Pity really. Of all the small sensor MF on the market, it has the most potential with their design. They might opt for no shutter at all in the future as there might be full frame electric shutter down the path that won't have any rolling shutter effect. It's 17mm flange is really good for adapting anything! Sigma 105mm f/1.4 + X1D.... sweet....

Then it will be the best Mirrorless camera on the market. They have just register a x1D Mark II. I hope it will be better this time around with DJI money...

Edited February 14, 2019 by xiaubauu2009

[Stuart Richardson]

As an aside, I wrote off Hasselblad years ago for their abysmal customer service (it is probably different in larger markets...here there is only one reseller who is somewhat problematic, and Hasselblad at the time refused to communicate with end users), but I still have an X5 scanner and wrote to them the other day asking if they had any plans to support FlexColor, which is theoretically a current product, but which they have not updated since at least 2009. MacOS now gives a warning that it will not be supported in the next OS. Meanwhile, they are happy to keep selling the scanner at 25,000 dollars a piece. The response to the question was a typical corporate non-answer. "We are not able to comment on software plans" but "we care about our customers". For all their service problems at times, I still value the fact that I can reach out to Leica at any time and reach an actual human who will answer my questions, even if it is a "I don't know" or an "I cannot say". Hasselblad, by contrast, I would not trust as far as I could throw my X5 scanner...probably about 3 or 4 meters on a good day if I stretch beforehand. 

[xiaubauu2009]

5 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

As an aside, I wrote off Hasselblad years ago for their abysmal customer service (it is probably different in larger markets...here there is only one reseller who is somewhat problematic, and Hasselblad at the time refused to communicate with end users), but I still have an X5 scanner and wrote to them the other day asking if they had any plans to support FlexColor, which is theoretically a current product, but which they have not updated since at least 2009. MacOS now gives a warning that it will not be supported in the next OS. Meanwhile, they are happy to keep selling the scanner at 25,000 dollars a piece. The response to the question was a typical corporate non-answer. "We are not able to comment on software plans" but "we care about our customers". For all their service problems at times, I still value the fact that I can reach out to Leica at any time and reach an actual human who will answer my questions, even if it is a "I don't know" or an "I cannot say". Hasselblad, by contrast, I would not trust as far as I could throw my X5 scanner...probably about 3 or 4 meters on a good day if I stretch beforehand. 

Hahahaha.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[albireo_double]

I have kept a 2009 MacPro running on OS 10.9 to do the Flexcolor duty. Has a Firewire port, too. Better than to assume Hasselblad will update the software. They will not is my prediction.

[djmay]

4 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

As an aside, I wrote off Hasselblad years ago for their abysmal customer service (it is probably different in larger markets...here there is only one reseller who is somewhat problematic, and Hasselblad at the time refused to communicate with end users), but I still have an X5 scanner and wrote to them the other day asking if they had any plans to support FlexColor, which is theoretically a current product, but which they have not updated since at least 2009. MacOS now gives a warning that it will not be supported in the next OS. Meanwhile, they are happy to keep selling the scanner at 25,000 dollars a piece. The response to the question was a typical corporate non-answer. "We are not able to comment on software plans" but "we care about our customers". For all their service problems at times, I still value the fact that I can reach out to Leica at any time and reach an actual human who will answer my questions, even if it is a "I don't know" or an "I cannot say". Hasselblad, by contrast, I would not trust as far as I could throw my X5 scanner...probably about 3 or 4 meters on a good day if I stretch beforehand. 

I use the Leica S for digitizing black/white negatives. I have not tried color negatives.

Jesse