When will S3 be available? {merged}

[ZHNL]

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Does anybody heard anything about it? And price?

I’d like to know other than 64M better color sensor, what else we Leica S user will have?

a few features I can think of:

Sensor dust auto clean (better to have)

no forced noise reduction (must)

no long exposure limitation at least not less than 120S (must)

maybe smaller raw file option (nice to have)

AF fine tune (must)

AF speed and accuracy(must)

Any information is welcome. 

[mgrayson3]

(edited...nothing pertinent to add)

Edited January 25, 2019 by mgrayson3

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[YellowBelly]

Oh my don’t you realise that this is leica they really don’t care at all what we want or think about!

 

 I want to know when they will offer me a realistic upgrade path not some mad overpriced rrp value that they give you a pittance for your old camera and roll you over for the same price as I wise person would buy it outright for. There pricing model is driving all the dealerships mad too, whenever I speak with them they  despair. And have been incredibly shy of having anything to do with secondhand lenses or body’s. Frankly they need to grow a pair and sell more volume of this wonderful product. There arrogance is going to look like stupidity if it fails to take control of a buoyant market for a glorious product. If they can’t broaden there market into working professionals and the demands they need into a system.

 

lets not forget the lost lenses that have never appeared since the S2 early marketing  

[albertknappmd]

I heard it will be rolled out this Spring so expect summer or fall 2019...

I hope that there are a few more pleasant surprises but if the enhanced ISO is really true and say if 20,000 is free of noise, then THAT is a more impressive improvement in my opinion that the increased sensor size...

Albert 😚

[ZHNL]

1 hour ago, YellowBelly said:

Oh my don’t you realise that this is leica they really don’t care at all what we want or think about!

 

 I want to know when they will offer me a realistic upgrade path not some mad overpriced rrp value that they give you a pittance for your old camera and roll you over for the same price as I wise person would buy it outright for. There pricing model is driving all the dealerships mad too, whenever I speak with them they  despair. And have been incredibly shy of having anything to do with secondhand lenses or body’s. Frankly they need to grow a pair and sell more volume of this wonderful product. There arrogance is going to look like stupidity if it fails to take control of a buoyant market for a glorious product. If they can’t broaden there market into working professionals and the demands they need into a system.

 

lets not forget the lost lenses that have never appeared since the S2 early marketing  

I want throw S out of window until each time I see its output tornality. They indeed waste such a nice system. It has great potential. 

[ZHNL]

16 minutes ago, albertknappmd said:

I heard it will be rolled out this Spring so expect summer or fall 2019...

I hope that there are a few more pleasant surprises but if the enhanced ISO is really true and say if 20,000 is free of noise, then THAT is a more impressive improvement in my opinion that the increased sensor size...

Albert 😚

If they think high ISO performance is big selling point of S system. They are retard. That is all I can say for now. 

And I think they did brag that during lunch event.  🤢

[ZHNL]

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On a side note, I receive a PM from who has first hand experience with preproduction S3. He seems really liked it. At least AF is much faster, though I don’t know if it is also more accurate. 

[albertknappmd]

did he say anything about performance at high ISO?

[ropo54]

The S3 is still in beta testing at the moment.  Not sure what that means for when it will be in final production.  

I've heard (can't recall where) that the ISO performance is much improved.

[Jeff S]

Spring 2019 was mentioned in the Photokina press release.  I’ve seen nothing   since, either for or against that.

It’s nice that Leica is updating the S007; I was beginning to wonder. But I won’t be convinced of its longer term commitment to the system unless there’s also some announcement regarding new or updated S lenses.  Leica is about the glass, and lack of any progress on that front, regardless of the fine current array, makes me skeptical.

Better zoom options, following the stellar SL zooms, might reignite my interest.  Unless, that is, the prices are crazy, as many anticipate.  Too many alternatives these days.... although not with that beautiful optical VF.

Jeff

[BernardC]

14 hours ago, YellowBelly said:

Oh my don’t you realise that this is leica they really don’t care at all what we want or think about!

(...)

lets not forget the lost lenses that have never appeared since the S2 early marketing  

No manufacturer really cares what we think about. For years I wanted Canon to make an SLR with a decent focusing screen. That never happened. Before that I wanted Hasselblad to add a reasonable level of interface between their various components (so the body knew what the lens was doing, and what film/sensor was attached). I guess they eventually did that, by throwing-out the baby with the bathwater!

 

Are there any "never appeared" lenses other than a 300? They would have sold 100 copies, none of them to professionals. If you want an AF 300mm, you can get the Hasselblad 300, with Leica S adapter, for 1/3 what a Leica 300 would cost.

I know that there are lenses that people have wished for, like a wider tilt-shift, or a fast 55/60mm (my personal wish), but they were never announced or shown in marketing.

[erlingmm]

The S product manager Toni Felsner was in Oslo in November, and we had a hands-on with the new S (prototype), but no pictures to take home. When asked about release date, he said "spring". Well, we said, spring comes late in Norway, he said "spring in Wetzlar".
I also had a wish for a new lens: I would like a 55mm "pancake" for walk-around. I guess they are hearing wishes like this all the time, none of us can speak for "the market" alone or claim that they don't listen. I am sure they listen, but they have to do their own evaluation of market potential. I for one would like a wide angle T/S, but I am afraid it may be a too small niche.

Edited January 26, 2019 by erlingmm
typo

[Jeff S]

44 minutes ago, BernardC said:

 

 

Are there any "never appeared" lenses other than a 300? They would have sold 100 copies, none of them to professionals. If you want an AF 300mm, you can get the Hasselblad 300, with Leica S adapter, for 1/3 what a Leica 300 would cost.

I know that there are lenses that people have wished for, like a wider tilt-shift, or a fast 55/60mm (my personal wish), but they were never announced or shown in marketing.

Back in 2011, David Farkas was optimistic about a 350, as well as other long lenses.  He also hoped for a longer zoom to complement the (then upcoming) 30-90, just as I wished in the post above.  We now know that the 30-90 is the under-performer (relatively) in the S arsenal, not on a par with the more recent longer SL zooms (which have OIS to boot). 

It seems clear to me that Leica moved on and prioritized the SL system (and now L mount in general) and away from its focus on S system, at least to a degree.  The S3 offers some hope, but the competition, the mirrorless craze, the price point (not to mention the AF motor debacle) have likely contributed to a less ambitious approach.  All guesses on my part, admittedly. 

Jeff

[Dr No]

End of year apparently but judging by their past it will likely be half way though 2020.

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

No manufacturer really cares what we think about. For years I wanted Canon to make an SLR with a decent focusing screen. That never happened. Before that I wanted Hasselblad to add a reasonable level of interface between their various components (so the body knew what the lens was doing, and what film/sensor was attached). I guess they eventually did that, by throwing-out the baby with the bathwater!

 

Are there any "never appeared" lenses other than a 300? They would have sold 100 copies, none of them to professionals. If you want an AF 300mm, you can get the Hasselblad 300, with Leica S adapter, for 1/3 what a Leica 300 would cost.

I know that there are lenses that people have wished for, like a wider tilt-shift, or a fast 55/60mm (my personal wish), but they were never announced or shown in marketing.

Very true and I agree on everything except the last sentences.

Here is the 45 tilt/shift and 350 being displayed in marketings.

Leica S for me remains too much of a mystery and too much of a compromise on spécification, reliability and service. The new camera sounds good but late 2019 (probably much later in 2020 judging on past performance) and for rumoured $30,000 price is quite shocking and a tough sell when you consider other offerings

[Dr No]

Sorry here the pic of 45tiltshift and 350 in Leica marketings.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[BernardC]

43 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

It seems clear to me that Leica moved on and prioritized the SL system (and now L mount in general) and away from its focus on S system, at least to a degree.

It's not just speculation to say that Leica has directed their resources toward new L-mount lenses. One of the recent video interviews stated this explicitly. On a related topic, Canon has announced that they are mostly working on lenses for their mirrorless mount as well. I'm sure Nikon is doing the same.

[BernardC]

4 minutes ago, Dr No said:

Sorry here the pic of 45tiltshift and 350 in Leica marketings.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

I hadn't seen that old S2 brochure before. That must be from 2008. The tilt-shift looks very nice and compact, with a real focus scale. I would have that one and never use any movements.

I count at least 3 lenses that were released for the S that aren't in this picture, and two that are in this picture but were not released. Does this mean that Leica is over-delivering, or that they responded to market realities?

That T/S looks sweet, but there isn't much of a market for an architectural medium format lens that can't be mounted on an Alpa, Cambo, or tech cam.

[erlingmm]

3 hours ago, BernardC said:

It's not just speculation to say that Leica has directed their resources toward new L-mount lenses. One of the recent video interviews stated this explicitly. On a related topic, Canon has announced that they are mostly working on lenses for their mirrorless mount as well. I'm sure Nikon is doing the same.

Well, of course, the SL costs 25-30% of the S and hopefully sells way more than the S as a mainstream product. But the lenses are almost as big as the S lenses!

Leica has widened their product spectrum to 4-5 platforms, and I think they intend to continue with that. Medium format will always be a niche.

But the S has a complete set of high quality lenses, many of them with leaf shutters. What is lacking is really the long tele (which would be ridiculously expensive), and a wide TS (which may not sell because specialised architectural photography often will be with tech cameras).

The only lens I have seen criticised is the zoom. I am happy with mine, although edge sharpness improves when stopped down. When it was in Wetzlar for AF upgrade, I noticed that they had done "optical adjustment", too, maybe there has been some sample variation.

One thing that should be fixed is Profoto support for TTL, this can easily be fixed with a firmware update in the Nikon controller for the Profoto remote.

The S remains a very versatile camera, and the only one with an optical finder (which I prefer, and am willing to pay for - to a certain extent ;-). With 65 mpix I think it is well positioned, I think it is hard to benefit from more resolution handheld. If you rather want mirrorless, tech cam, specialised landscape cam, or 150mpix - go ahead!

 

Edited January 26, 2019 by erlingmm
typo

[ynp]

32 minutes ago, erlingmm said:

One thing that should be fixed is Profoto support for TTL, this can easily be fixed with a firmware update in the Nikon controller for the Profoto remote.

I also hope that a simple fix in the Profoto controller will get us HSS/ TTL.  I also hope that the S3 will be priced competitively. 

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[albireo_double]

Before they launch the S3, they should fix the Tethered Plugin for LR. It still does not allow us to apply presets when shooting. The download page even says that the plugin may crash if you change the presets while shooting.... oh dear.  I alerted Leica to this problem two years ago and got a reply on 2 Feb 2017 that product management have been alerted to the problem. They still haven't fixed it.... Meanwhile, the Fuji Tethered Plugin for LR, which looks exactly the same, works fine with the presets (and of course, the GFX cameras now tether with Capture One). Listen, Leica boys:Toni, Jean-Jacques, Thomas, Alexander and everybody with whom I have corresponded since buying my S2 and later the S007 : I am more or less ready to spend stupid money on your "only improved the sensor but didn't bother to do anything else" S3 --- but I will not do so, out of principle and out of being an old stubborn geezer, unless you fix that tethered plugin first. There is no room for "sloppy work" at the price level that you seem to imagine for the S3. A defective tethered plugin is SLOPPY. Ok, I know that you are a German company, and German companies, as a general rule (SAP excluded) suck at software. But this is not exactly rocket science - ask some Czech or Romanian programmers to fix it for you if you can't do it domestically.