When will S3 be available? {merged}

[albertknappmd]

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The delay is most likely due to the AF which needs to be improved especially in low light situations..

Mark has succinctly and elegantly stated the economic case for the S system. Amazing how people forget this..

Albert

[Jeff S]

15 minutes ago, albertknappmd said:

The delay is most likely due to the AF which needs to be improved especially in low light situations..

 

And perhaps a new Maestro III processor, now rumored in the SL2 , could assist in that regard.  This would contradict last year’s report about retaining the Maestro II.

Jeff

Edited October 26, 2019 by Jeff S

[ZHNL]

Both unconfirmed. The S spec from rumor site is still the same.

[Jeff S]

21 minutes ago, ZHNL said:

Both unconfirmed. The S spec from rumor site is still the same.

Nokishita is usually accurate, and they’re the source of the initially leaked pics of the SL2 as well as its Maestro III. Any changes to the S processor is pure question/hope on my part; it’s not reported anywhere, and  is contrary to all prior info.  Nothing more than that, and no attempt here to start a new rumor.  We’re just guessing about the S3 delay, which I’m still inclined to think is more of a bad sign than a good sign.  But we’ll see.

Jeff

 

[Arif]

I went to see Peter Karbe's presentation in Kyoto last week regarding the SL lenses. The latest SL lenses are incredibly good (can easily handle 100MP) and approaching (may even be better than) S lenses so unless Leica is going to be using more than MP as an ongoing differentiator, the logical decision would be to go with an SL2 in the future for most non-professionals.  

[Jeff S]

11 minutes ago, Arif said:

I went to see Peter Karbe's presentation in Kyoto last week regarding the SL lenses. The latest SL lenses are incredibly good (can easily handle 100MP) and approaching (may even be better than) S lenses so unless Leica is going to be using more than MP as an ongoing differentiator, the logical decision would be to go with an SL2 in the future for most non-professionals.  

The S lenses are obviously built to handle more MP, as the 64MP S3 shows, and as Leica declared from inception.  And as S product manager Tony Filsner said in a 2018 interview with Hugh Brownstone, the OVF of the S system precludes use of in-camera correction for distortions, etc, as these would otherwise be visible in the finder.  So, yes, the S lenses are built to an incredibly high standard (as are the SL lenses), but the S system has other issues that might provide longer term concern. 

Jeff

[ZHNL]

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I think SL glasses beat S glasses on resolution for sure but I trust my eyes and based on what I saw, I am very confident to say I prefer S look to SL look.

It is clear to me S represent peak Leica rendering but SL represent peak technical performance Leica glass can achieve. 

Having real focus ring than FBW is also one of biggest S glass advantage to me, I use manual 80-90% otherwise I might get myself a few SL cron already. 
 

to be fair, a few Nikon f1.8 primeS I have are already beat Leica M glasses such as 90APO, 35cron and even 50f1.8s giving M APO performance, I am sure they can give Leica SL glasses a serious competition as well at 1/5-1/8 $.

However, at end of day, I still prefer M glasses, sometimes, we don’t need technical perfection in glasses design, they are just lovely and a joy to use. Leica get this right long time ago in M. They worth every single cent IMHO. 

[LeicaR10]

ZHNL,  I certainly agree with you about the worthiness of M lenses.  IMO, all Leica lenses are worthy of the cost incurred.  Each Leica lens is very well thought out, optically engineered superbly for best intended applications and last for generations.  As I tell my employees and up and coming assistants, if you are going to buy a camera, always spend more for the lenses vs the back end.  Plus find the lens(es) that are best for one's creative mindset that will render the content of the photograph as you see it and ultimately causes the viewer to; Stop, Look, Think and perhaps Feel something about that moment in time.  What I like best about Leica; the lenses render uniquely for each focal length, especially M lenses.  My corporate and private collectors apparently agree as they often favor my landscape photographs created with M, then S and followed by SL lenses.  This is my experience and I certain other photographers have different thoughts and results depending on obvious variables.  r/ Mark   

Edited October 29, 2019 by LeicaR10

[setuporg]

I really don't care what SL or other FF lenses can do w.r.t. MF.  The defocusing of the S, and XCD for that matter, and MF overall is very different.  I get amazing photos different from FF every time.  The only lenses that come close in M are the APO 50 and the Noct.  The question is not the resolution, so long as it's sufficient, but the character.  The 120mm is really amazing.  @LeicaR10 I really hope to learn more about your landscape business, how it came about, etc., as it seems like a dream lifestyle career.:) . Yet where MF shines are people on a beautiful bokehed background IMHO.  Or get any detail in the foreground in the landscape.

Edited October 29, 2019 by setuporg

[setuporg]

20 hours ago, Arif said:

I went to see Peter Karbe's presentation in Kyoto last week regarding the SL lenses. The latest SL lenses are incredibly good (can easily handle 100MP) and approaching (may even be better than) S lenses so unless Leica is going to be using more than MP as an ongoing differentiator, the logical decision would be to go with an SL2 in the future for most non-professionals.  

This nonprofessional wants a different look.  For documenting reality a Fuji is fine...  Or an iPhone 11 Pro for that matter.:)

[LeicaR10]

Setuporg,   I agree with you about the character of the how the lenses render a photograph.  For me and decades of experience with Leica systems, each lens type is unique on how it renders.  I liken it to how different paint brushes will create different effects.  For lenses, it can be bokeh, optics and "flaws" in said optical arrangements and glass types that all contribute to the uniqueness.  For me, due to advancing age and distances that I hike to my locations, weight and bulk are a major factors as to which Leica system I decide to take and lenses.  I once described this to be:  S system 0 - 10 KM, SL 10 - 25 KM, and M 25 - 100 KM+ depending of the challenges of remote and difficult terrain and weather conditions.  In my younger years, I would simply take the S system and 2 - 3 lenses, tripod, etc., plus all my camping gear etc..  Before the S system, I used the R system.  As for my business, I started with pubic art shows and over time, my photographs are purchased by private collectors and corporate clients.  It wasn't always this way, before all this, I worked in my other past profession as an environmental and remote sensing engineer.  My photographic work evolved from film to digital and during the last 40 years, I simply enjoy life, hiking to remote locations and capturing the beauty of nature in a moment in time.   Last, I thoroughly enjoy the S system and others; i.e. M and SL as well.  For me, they are photographic tools that  help me create and capture the beauty of the world.   r/ Mark

Edited October 29, 2019 by LeicaR10

[helged]

Somme comments from @nicci78 of relevance for the S3:

 

[ropo54]

For what it is worth, the Leica S3 is listed with photographs on the B&H site as "coming soon".

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[helged]

2 hours ago, ropo54 said:

For what it is worth, the Leica S3 is listed with photographs on the B&H site as "coming soon".

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Then it's 'only' the price tag, date of availability, possible upgrade arrangements, and the specs - to the extent these are modified compared to the first, official announcement - that are missing...

[ropo54]

Coming soon is Spring 2020.  This appears on Leica site.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Jan1985]

Today I got a message of an ex-employee of Leica. He still is there every week. He told me that the developers are not really satisfied with some special parts of the upcoming S3. They will improve them further until they would be "Perfect". And that's the reason for the delay. I can only assume that one big reason is the sensor.

[helged]

Optional LENR in SL2 - implying optional LENR in S3 as well? And can we hope for Maestro III in S3? More unlikely than likely, I guess. Spring 2020 will tell... 

[frame-it]

29 minutes ago, helged said:

Optional LENR in SL2 - implying optional LENR in S3 as well? And can we hope for Maestro III in S3? More unlikely than likely, I guess. Spring 2020 will tell... 

if the SL2 is a testbed for the optional LENR, IBIS and Maestro 3..maybe those 3 features will be in the S3 in 2020 ?

[Stuart Richardson]

The long exposure limit in the SL2 is 30 minutes as well, which is great. I was at the event today and spent some time talking to people. I am not sure how on the record it was, so I will not give out names etc, but the sense was what Jan said. They were not satisfied with some aspects, and they wanted to fix them. But they are doing it, and they also indicated that there would be upgrade options for current owners. No specifics, but it sounded nice. The SL2 seems quite good too. Not available yet, but on the 21st I think they said. 

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[ZHNL]

1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

The long exposure limit in the SL2 is 30 minutes as well, which is great. I was at the event today and spent some time talking to people. I am not sure how on the record it was, so I will not give out names etc, but the sense was what Jan said. They were not satisfied with some aspects, and they wanted to fix them. But they are doing it, and they also indicated that there would be upgrade options for current owners. No specifics, but it sounded nice. The SL2 seems quite good too. Not available yet, but on the 21st I think they said. 

I actually like what I see with SL2. Now I have more hope for S3. 
i hope they could do something with LCD spec and New processor. At least on paper, it will make it a more attractive upgrade.