Farewell to the 135 APO-Telyt-M

[Paul J]

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I'm on Team Puts. I think he is mostly right, and I think Wattsy is right too. It's just not financially viable to maintain a lens that isn't in demand. Jaap is also right in that some components may not be available This has happened in the past because of tightening EU laws, or those components just became too expensive to feasibly produce anymore.

 

I prefer the Zeiss 135 f2 APO-Sonar anyway. I personally don't need small and light. I realise that many do.

 

I would likely buy a 135mm Summicron and now we have the technology to accurately focus one, and not be concerned about framing, or finder blockage, and have another high tech body to use it on too, it's possible but an SL lens is more likely. Fact remains the rangefinder, which the M is, works best 28-90.

 

Either way, who cares, it's just a lens and there alternatives or a flushed used market. Even the earlier Non APO version is stunning and hard to fault.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Paul J

[Paul J]

I don't even think used prices will rocket. Well they will, nothing surer,  but that doesn't mean they will sell.

 

The early 135 lens are very good. They are discontinued and they are cheap because people just don't use the M for that anymore.

[adan]

It’s been all but confirmed that this “scare” is completely unfounded...

 

Really? Where?

[Herr Barnack]

It’s been all but confirmed that this “scare” is completely unfounded, but here’s my reaction anyway:

 

At the very least the 135 mm focal length makes the range of 16/18-135 mm sound rather comprehensive and complete, for a camera system of this type anyway. 16-90 mm sounds just that bit too limited, especially given the 135’s long history in the M lineup. I’m quite sure they don’t sell many of the 18 mm Super Elmars either, but it’s a fantastic lens and equally valuable on the other end of the prime range for the same reason.

 

It seems unlikely they’ll let this focal length become unavailable for long if at all. Erwin’s rant seems to be based on no inside information and little to no evidence. B&H are not listing it as discontinued and it’s still listed on Leica’s website and available in their shops.

 

It’s hard to know what’s prompted his outburst. It’s rather inconsistent, at one point claiming the M-system is Leica’s cash-cow (probably true) while simultaneously and melodramatically prophesying its doom. I don’t get that impression given Leica’s, latest releases, and the interest and releases from other vendors at all. On the contrary; such overwhelmingly niche lenses as the Thambar and the massive and virtually unobtainable (even for most Leica users) Noctilux 75 mm scream confidence to me. And why not? The M10 is a winner and we’ve got the range of M10-derived relatives and special editions to come still.

 

Time to switch to decaf, perhaps?

Edited May 5, 2018 by Herr Barnack

[tsleica]

I hear a lonely trumpet over yonder hill..playing taps..for this stalwart but unwanted piece of glass...finally...laid to rest...forever...lol..

[lct]

I guess Leica didn't earn a lot of money with M 135/2.8, M 135/4 and R 135/2.8 but at least they were there for those wanting 135. Now that we have the best 135 ever made and that it can be used on 4 different bodies (at least), Leica is ditching it for economic reasons? If you find this normal folks, i don't.

[pgk]

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..... Leica is ditching it for economic reasons?

 

Assuming that they are 'ditching' it, the reason will be economic and based on lack of demand and cost of production. Last I heard Leica did not enjoy charitable status.

[jdlaing]

Oh my dear Lord....!!!

 

Leica is canning a lens.

They are doomed!

[lct]

Assuming that they are 'ditching' it, the reason will be economic and based on lack of demand and cost of production. Last I heard Leica did not enjoy charitable status.

 

So providing a comprehensive system to photographers is considered charity now? If so i regret the old times when charity was in force at Wetzlar.

[Jeff S]

So providing a comprehensive system to photographers is considered charity now? If so i regret the old times when charity was in force at Wetzlar.

I think that the comprehensive system has moved (or is intended to move) to the L mount.

 

Jeff

[jaapv]

So providing a comprehensive system to photographers is considered charity now? If so i regret the old times when charity was in force at Wetzlar.

Well, considering the M mount, it is a legacy mount from 1954, too narrow for some lens designs, not suitable for electronic coupling of modern lenses and a few other drawbacks...

It is a miracle that Leica still supports it as they do, bringing out new lenses, new cameras, adapters to their more modern design bodies,  new sensors take the M lenses into account, even accommodating the LTM lenses back to the early 1930-ies...

Canon dropped their old mount in favour of the EOS one without retrocompatablility, Nikon did something similar. Count your blessings.

[efreed2754]

Hmmm. Seems Leica has treated the 135 as a Step Child (apologies to loved step children).

 

First warning was they refused to six bit code the 135 for some time.

 

Second they said to be sure to stop down to allow for focus limitations.

 

These were at the very least warning signs of something—yet we’ve had 135s for generations. Weren’t the screw mount cameras less accurate than the Ms? Yet don’t recall any mention of focus limitations.

 

Oh perhaps since we could use the “original” Visoflex our focusing was more accurate from 90-135-200-400 etc.

 

Well since the M 240 we’ve had live view with or without the Viso. Didn’t this grant us more focus accuracy?

 

Then they seemingly grudgingly agreed to six bit code. Misdirection? Just when we thought we were safe.

 

And now the M10 has greater focusing accuracy as a RF only lens with live view as backup.

 

So there was thunder for some time portending some evil lurking. Guess not wishing to be alarmists we paid no never mind.

 

So what’s changed? Technically we were more advanced with longer focus base and live view so that’s not it. Speculation of low demand coupled with possible cost or lens sourcing challenges makes sense.

 

How does the lack of a 135 position RF Leica’s to its competitors?

 

Guess Leica would say there are other bodies which handle 135s with aplomb as some have stated

 

Either way seems like a diminution of the RF line. Sign of more changes? Don’t know unless we are clear on root cause of the 135’s demise.

[jaapv]

As there are no competitors to the M rangefinder camera, there is no positioning.

The APO-Telyt was the fastest non-goggled 135 too, and well beyond the theoretical limit of the RF system, even if some users (myself included) have no real difficulty focusing it wide open.

I think Leica regards the M as a pure RF camera, the EVF being an auxiliary add-on, just like the Visoflex 3. Even the focus peaking is slanted to this idea.

[luigi bertolotti]

Maybe it's a viral - marketing news for they have seen that there are some hundred in the channel (or at factory) ... right move anyway  ... by istinct, I surfed around to see which dealers have it as readily available   (but didn't order...)

[Eoin]

Leica is not Leica without a strong M lineup. Will it, can it, or does it need to keep up with modern sensor tech will ultimately decide its fate.

I look on with bemusement at the uber expensive cameras and lenses > €6000 and can't help but think cost v's value proposition is getting seriously skewed.

Fashion and current trends favour Leica at the moment and they are heavily invested in Boutique Stores, long may they ride that gravy train, but the inevitable consumer fickleness towards the next great desirable thing may not be sufficient to sustain such an expensive brand with enough volume to keep it viable.

 

I guess some rationalisation in product is required and given the longer focal lengths tend to loose the most value 90APO/135APO in the 2nd hand market due to lack of popularity, I'm not that surprised with the rumour. I've always wanted a 135APO, but never quite enough to drop the required coin on it, either new or 2nd hand.

For the occasional need I have, I have other lenses that can be used with an adapter. Even then ... I'm more inclined to use a different system when I want greater than 85mm.

 

Then again, when I'm out and about with my Leica camera, all I ever see nowadays, are young and old folks alike, with their wonderfully capable camera phones shooting images and videos. It's unusual to see a SLR or CSC in the sea of camera phone photographers and tourists. Therein lies the rub .... not just for my beloved Leica but for the industry as a whole.

 

I suspect as our generation and the one behind us die out, so will photography as we knew it. Lack of an M 135 will be the least of their problems

[Simon]

Really? Where?

More like where is the proof to the contrary?

[pgk]

So providing a comprehensive system to photographers is considered charity now? If so i regret the old times when charity was in force at Wetzlar.

 

Given the recent lens releases I don't think that Leica are ignoring the M system and they seem able to support it in ways that many never thought that they would. But the 135 is a tricky focal length for the RF system and I don't think that its ever been that popular as used prices indicate. Being positive it is to hoped that a smaller, lighter, neater 135 might be in the offing (collapsible like the 90 macro perhaps?),. But I really wouldn't blame Leica for terminating a slow selling, awkward lens RFwise (my description and I do have the E46 pre-APO version which I use a fair bit) if its failing to make money.

[Exodies]

Or it could be that as Leica make things in batches and production is currently full with the four or five new lenses they have announced and 135s are selling like hot cakes so shops aren’t able to replenish their stocks it only looks like the end of the line.

[105012]

A collapsible f4 39mm filter diameter 135mm would be attractive, though I'm very happy with my APO-Telyt. It is a fantastic lens for portraiture and landscapes. I use it on a pair of M3's, so no worries about easily obtaining sharp focus.

Edited May 6, 2018 by 105012

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[luigi bertolotti]

A collapsible f4 39mm filter diameter 135mm would be attractive, though I'm very happy with my APO-Telyt. It is a fantastic lens for portraiture and landscapes. I use it on a pair of M3's, so no worries about easily obtaining sharp focus.

Collapsible ? Good as idea (I've almost decided that my recently acquired Macro Elmar 90 can by my "standard" 90, mostly for its fine size when carried along) : but probably isn't by chance that they have never made one.. on a collapsible design you must renounce to a certain degree of strict tolerancing... you must take into account that the extract/retract operation can be performed hundreds of times, even with some roughness of action, marginal wear on the fitting mechanism... and we know how much Leica has been always cautious about the usage of 135 on digital Ms (any instructions book has a warning on the matter) : So, I don't think they are going to make one now.

 

Just to speculate...  and speaking again abut the Macro Elmar 90, which has a very fine and compact goggle unit... an item I would like to see could be a compact 135 with goggles of the same style of the MEM 90... or even an ungoggled 135 around f4/4,8 with a proper goggle unit embedding a 1,4x converter to achieve a 180 around f5,6/6,3...  : I doubt I wouldn't buy such an item... but is a typical desire from the "old breed of Leicistes" which probably has a declining weight within their Product Marketing Dept...

Edited May 6, 2018 by luigi bertolotti