M9reno Posted March 28, 2018 Share #301 Posted March 28, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) OK, what would you suggest be done instead? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 28, 2018 Posted March 28, 2018 Hi M9reno, Take a look here Luxury Camera Bags by Thorsten von Overgaard. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
edwardkaraa Posted March 28, 2018 Share #302 Posted March 28, 2018 OK, what would you suggest be done instead? Just an observation. What time is the lynching? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 28, 2018 Share #303 Posted March 28, 2018 (edited) Thorsten's comparison between the world's population of chickens, more than 19 Billion, and less than 80 Elephants in Vietnam that are being driven to extinction, is all you need to know about how ignorant and how little thought and care has been put towards his profiteering. There is an immeasurable difference between considerately and respectfully eating to sustain oneself from sustainable resources, something the entire natural world does, and slaughtering the last remaining elephants to put on a luxury bag for your vanity and profit. To be so dismissive about a critically endangered species such as the Elephants in Vietnam, and then attempt to take the moral high ground on something like chickens, is highly questionable at this point. His argument is seemingly based on the historical difference between ivory and skin deaths, skin being the far lesser of the two historically. To quote him "Then hunt for ivory has given elephant skin a bad name." This does not take into account the current environment, concerns, and demand on skin. It does not take into account that Skin sales are a recent fad of the last couple of years and have sky rocketed. This is fuelled by the new fad of skin itself, being used for luxury goods, shoes, bags and belts, coverings such as car upholstery in the middle east, medicinal and edibles in parts of Asia especially China, and also because of the Ivory ban that China has very recently imposed - reducing the demand on Ivory. The legal loopholes that exist in African trade allow an endangered animals skin to be sold, but not it's ivory, because the laws predate the current trend for Skin. National Geographic: https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/12/wildlife-watch-zimbabwe-elephant-skins-trade/ "Unless there is considerable overlap in the CITES data, at least 70,000 African elephants appear to have given their hides to the legal global skin trade during the past decade—about twice the number poached for ivory each year" Thorsten's high priced bags, wether legitimately ethical or not, are contributing to the perceived value of elephant skin. They are driving up demand on skin and they are incentivising poaching in the world poorest populations, it's leading to the slaughter and skinning of the world's diminishing elephant population, not just Zimbabwe. This is occurring in the most brutal, barbaric and inhumane ways. The elephants have excruciating and long drawn out deaths. It's exploiting the planet and it's exploiting the poor. Very little of the bags high value goes back to the any conservation and preservation. As for his flippant comments about political correctness and Disney Films, they do nothing to contribute to his argument or help his cause and only make things worse. Edited March 28, 2018 by Paul J 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted March 28, 2018 Share #304 Posted March 28, 2018 Just an observation. What time is the lynching? You've got the wrong idea. This is a peaceful demonstration. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NERICSSON Posted March 28, 2018 Share #305 Posted March 28, 2018 (edited) Trial? Some of us presented a problem statement, Thorsten responded with 18 billion chickens... Edited March 28, 2018 by NERICSSON 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted March 28, 2018 Share #306 Posted March 28, 2018 You've got the wrong idea. This is a peaceful demonstration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NERICSSON Posted March 28, 2018 Share #307 Posted March 28, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) sorry I missed my smiley :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted March 28, 2018 Share #308 Posted March 28, 2018 Trial? Some of us presented a problem statement, Thorsten responded with 18 billion chickens... Why not? Chickens also have a right to be called "Sexy Stuff". And the eggs... let's not forget the trillions of eggs! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted March 28, 2018 Share #309 Posted March 28, 2018 I never got his newsletter but I have unsubscribed from his YouTube channel. Same here.!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted March 28, 2018 Share #310 Posted March 28, 2018 I saw he had posted a video on You Tube the other day and just ignored it for the time being not really knowing what it was about till I saw this thread and I was stunned at what the video was about. My first reaction was WTF!!!! I unsubscribed immediately. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 28, 2018 Share #311 Posted March 28, 2018 I think that laughing it off might work for his intended customers bade, but it has estranged him from the Leica community. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_murray Posted March 28, 2018 Share #312 Posted March 28, 2018 He evidently believes he can gouge far more profit from pandering to the monied celebrities who are likely to buy this gross stuff than he will from continuing to pander to the polyglot but essentially liberal hoi polloi that make up the Leica community. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 28, 2018 Share #313 Posted March 28, 2018 I saw he had posted a video on You Tube the other day and just ignored it for the time being not really knowing what it was about till I saw this thread and I was stunned at what the video was about. My first reaction was WTF!!!! I unsubscribed immediately. Two things stuck in my mind. He praised the design of his bags because there are no metal internal parts that could mark a camera, and yet there’s a metal zip that could easily snag a body when its being put in or out of the bag. Also one of the larger bags had enough space to rest a bottle of water on top of the insert good luck with that. Finally his old bags, which apparently fall apart after a couple of days (!!!), were absolutely hideous showing money can buy many things, but good taste isn’t one of them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted March 28, 2018 Share #314 Posted March 28, 2018 I think that laughing it off might work for his intended customers bade, but it has estranged him from the Leica community. Unfortunately this episode, like so many others, will quickly be forgotten. New users will come along and be drawn in... unless maybe his perceived special status with the mothership is severed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 28, 2018 Share #315 Posted March 28, 2018 (edited) From Billingham (so far).... “Thank you for contacting us regarding this article. We would like to confirm that Billingham is in no way connected to the individual or company involved in making these bags, and we have played no part in their production. Please be assured that we are investigating this matter. With kind regards from the Billingham team” I’ll post again if they follow up. Jeff Edited March 28, 2018 by Jeff S 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 28, 2018 Share #316 Posted March 28, 2018 I think the guy was given the death penalty without a trial. Angry mob reactions. The video and article he presented are his 'trial' and we, as Leica users he targets his products and services at, are the jury. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted March 28, 2018 Share #317 Posted March 28, 2018 Here’s the fact of the matter: This specific bag is elephant hide from Zimbabwe, which is one of the countries that have a remarkable growth of in population of Luxodonta africana elephants (84,000) within their reserves. The sale of hides from naturally deceased elephants goes into funding the reserves, the security and veterinarians. In other words, the protection and growth of elephants. We do not use elephant skin from hunted elephants. It’s my fault that I didn’t consider people’s feeling and ignorance on this subject. I’ve known all about these bags for more than a year, the history of the skin, the certification, the legality of different types of sources. My video mentions that the skin is certified, and when you buy a bag with exotic skin, you get a certificate for its origin. But 15 pages of heated discussion without a clue to the facts! And an “administrator” going elephant man on his profile … I’m a public person with a website that displays my phone number and my e-mail. Only esteemed forum member Jono Slack was sensible enough to not part-take in this sideshow, but e-mailed me directly to question how this works, and did his own research as well, opening more questions that he asked me. Anyone who feel they want to do something about this should donate to for example www.earthorganization.org or www.savetheelephants.org /Thorsten Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 28, 2018 Share #318 Posted March 28, 2018 From Billingham (so far).... “Thank you for contacting us regarding this article. We would like to confirm that Billingham is in no way connected to the individual or company involved in making these bags, and we have played no part in their production. Please be assured that we are investigating this matter. With kind regards from the Billingham team” I’ll post again if they follow up. Jeff I've had a very similar response. TO is 'trading off' Leica & Billingham. Using their brand reputations to give credibility and assurance for his products/services. I know that quite a few people do this with regards to Leica, and mostly they seem OK with it, unlike a lot of companies who stamp out such behaviour when they are aware of it, because instances like this can very easily damage a brand and its values. It's quite funny that TO is selling what are AFAIK the most expensive 'camera' bags in the world, but you then have to go and buy a (relatively) cheap insert from a proper camera bag maker like Billingham to actually make them work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 28, 2018 Share #319 Posted March 28, 2018 Here’s the fact of the matter: This specific bag is elephant hide from Zimbabwe, which is one of the countries that have a remarkable growth of in population of Luxodonta africana elephants (84,000) within their reserves. The sale of hides from naturally deceased elephants goes into funding the reserves, the security and veterinarians. In other words, the protection and growth of elephants. We do not use elephant skin from hunted elephants. It’s my fault that I didn’t consider people’s feeling and ignorance on this subject. I’ve known all about these bags for more than a year, the history of the skin, the certification, the legality of different types of sources. My video mentions that the skin is certified, and when you buy a bag with exotic skin, you get a certificate for its origin. But 15 pages of heated discussion without a clue to the facts! And an “administrator” going elephant man on his profile … I’m a public person with a website that displays my phone number and my e-mail. Only esteemed forum member Jono Slack was sensible enough to not part-take in this sideshow, but e-mailed me directly to question how this works, and did his own research as well, opening more questions that he asked me. Anyone who feel they want to do something about this should donate to for example www.earthorganization.org or www.savetheelephants.org /Thorsten Can everybody just hold fire for 5 minutes, I'm going to get the popcorn! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 28, 2018 Share #320 Posted March 28, 2018 He evidently believes he can gouge far more profit from pandering to the monied celebrities who are likely to buy this gross stuff than he will from continuing to pander to the polyglot but essentially liberal hoi polloi that make up the Leica community. Liberal in the classic sense of personal freedom and liberty. The conservative members on the forum come under that definition as well, I find. . Not all celebrities will purchase this stuff. Think of people like the McCartneys, Bill Gates, Bob Geldof and many others who have their hearts in the right place. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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