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By the way, the US price of the Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2 is $6,495 (very close to the $ conversion of the Japanese price).

 

https://leicastoremiami.com/products/leica-thambar-m-90mm-f-2-2

 

https://www.leicastoresf.com/259555

 

The price in the eurozone is €5,950.

Edited by Mistral75
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Why loving the new Summaron and not the new Thambar?

 

I can only speak for myself but the Summaron-M is a very fine lens that offers an advantage for me over modern ASPH 28mm lenses. It is therefore worth something to me beyond curiosity value. The Thambar, however, is a special effect lens that produces results so far from “normal” that it has no photographic value to me. It looks like a beautifully made object but not something I’d want to pay €5,000 for.

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OK, now it's been announced, here is my shot of the new Thambar in action with Andreas Kaufmann at the Goodwood Revival a month ago. We chatted about this, much like our several other previous catch ups at Goodwood over the years. But I have always held these private discussions in confidence. much like the way I treat the information from my patients in my day job.

 

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Edited by topoxforddoc
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Why loving the new Summaron and not the new Thambar? 

That's easy. while the Summaron is expensive, it definitely offers something unique (very small, quick and easy to focus, low distortion)

 

While the choices for vintage-looking portrait lenses are practially endless (and still expanding). Yes, the Thambar still looks different and it has that central filter, but the price is just way too much. It will probably give "a bit of inspiration" for some Chinese lens makers...

 

But a part of this is Leica's strategy to focus on loyal customers, who can afford almost anything new and interesting thing that's coming out, hoping that it will become collectible one day or simply the avability of getting something that is still "truly old", but with a condition that is "brand new".

 

 

 

I guess I might be putting a little aside for the next 10 years for a new Noctilux 50 1.2 sooner or later they could get around to re-making those as well, probably :) Aspherical lens production can't be that difficult anymore.

 

Btw, what would you choose to be made again? Summilux AA? I guess neither of these is really "old enough" to be produced like this, and the 75 Noctilux will take the Lux's place, surely, and an even higher-end 35mm isn't impossible either, that's probably one direction they are going for besides developing the mirrorless and other lines.

Edited by padam
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How come all 11 of my Summars, both coated and uncoated, are fine? Many of these were 'accidental purchases' which came attached to a camera. The lens also has much more character than most modern Leica lenses. My vote would be for a modern version of the now comparatively rare and expensive Rigid Summar.

 

William

 

Hello William,

 

Leitz made that lens a number of years ago.

 

They called it the 50mm Summicron R, Second Version.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

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My guess is that the Stemar will be made again. No crazier than Thambar!

 

Less crazy, maybe its time for a stereo re-play.  In any event, the Stemar has much better glass than this wildly weird release.  I do believe Lecia's time (perhaps Leitz's time for the sake of re-living the past) would be better spent making digital bodies right the first time. Regards, ron

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...  I do believe Leica's time (perhaps Leitz's time for the sake of re-living the past) would be better spent making digital bodies right the first time. ...

Right... but making what you speak of means REAL capital investiment ... a small investiment for a 6600 US$ lens (in my rough projection - good return with 500 units sold) is one of the little "cash cows" which any Company needs to find in its own Marketplace...

Edited by luigi bertolotti
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Hello William,

 

Leitz made that lens a number of years ago.

 

They called it the 50mm Summicron R, Second Version.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

 

Thanks Michael. It would be nice to see it in an M mount. My problem is that, as a collector, I will always want the original rather than a 're-creation'. I am often torn between the two aspects of my 'Leica hobby'.

 

William

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Luigi, you are no doubt correct. I do find it hard to understand collecting replicas (i.e., near replica in the Thambar's case) and certainly do not see a niche for Thambar. Out of all fairness to Leica, the Summaron re-issue brought my original off the shelf and into my shirt pocket. Regards,  ron

Edited by Ronazle
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Nothing new here. You either embrace it or not.

 

I love using my Wollensak verito LF lens. And this Thambar is exactly that: a 100 year old design purposely made for portraits ala 1930''s Hollywood style.

 

I'd love to own it but 2 things stop me.

 

First: I am not selling my Nikon digital equipment. It's a supremely performant system.

I'd switch to digital M for work but I still don't think that the M10 cuts it as a pro camera. At least it's less pathetic than the M, M9 and all the other M-type BS cameras but I'm not yet convinced.

 

In other words, if the M10 was a true pro camera, I'd use it as my pro system with a Thambar on it.

 

And then there is the price.

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Thanks Michael. It would be nice to see it in an M mount. My problem is that, as a collector, I will always want the original rather than a 're-creation'. I am often torn between the two aspects of my 'Leica hobby'.

 

William

 

Hello William,

 

Actually they did that in 1979.

 

Just as the Summicron R, Second Version, is pretty much a copy of the optical configuration of the 1930's 50mm Summar: The 1979 50mm Summicron M is that same optical configuration shaved a little here & filed a little there so that it will fit into a physically smaller focusing mount for an "M" Leica.

 

Just take a set of current non-APO 50mm Summicron lens elements & put it in a Summar like  focusing mount & there is your updated Summar.

 

Best Regards.

 

Michael

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Mmmm - outside of both being double-gauss 6-element 50s, the Summar and the current 50 Summicron (1976 R, 1979-present M) are really not the same at all.

 

Summar has one flat (plano) lens surface, Summicrons 76/79 have five flat surfaces, Other elements are quite different in curvature and thickness. The spacing between the front and back groups (either side of the aperture) is much larger in the Summicrons. Almost certainly the glass types (indices of refraction and dispersion) are different after 47 years (1933-79). The Summar has notable curvature of field, which the Summicrons mostly eliminate. The late Summicrons vignette less due to having larger rear-element diameters (thanks to the M mount).

 

Those technical differences result in noticeable differences in character or drawing. The 76/79 Summicron 50s (and the 80/90 90 Elmarit R/M) were "the beginning" of the transition to the modern, crystalline "Solms-y" Leica look - which is why the M versions survived in the line for decades afterwards, and generally "fit in" with the look of the even more modern lenses.

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If we can trust the MTF-graphs of the Leica pocket book, the Summar has - besides all differences in optical design - much more in common with the pre-asph. 50mm Summilux than with the 50mm Summicron. The Summar is quite good at the center - you may even say better than the Summicron -, but then it declines constantly to a very low floor the wider you get to the edges. The Summicron is much more controlled on the whole plane.  The Summilux declines in a simliar way - though wide opened it is much "worse" in the center than the Summar.  

 

This common characteristic of the Summar and the Summilux allows you to achieve three-dimensional impressions as with no other lens I know. The Summicron is much "flatter" - which should not be understood as worse, but completely different.  

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Mmmm - outside of both being double-gauss 6-element 50s, the Summar and the current 50 Summicron (1976 R, 1979-present M) are really not the same at all.

 

Summar has one flat (plano) lens surface, Summicrons 76/79 have five flat surfaces, Other elements are quite different in curvature and thickness. The spacing between the front and back groups (either side of the aperture) is much larger in the Summicrons. Almost certainly the glass types (indices of refraction and dispersion) are different after 47 years (1933-79). The Summar has notable curvature of field, which the Summicrons mostly eliminate. The late Summicrons vignette less due to having larger rear-element diameters (thanks to the M mount).

 

Those technical differences result in noticeable differences in character or drawing. The 76/79 Summicron 50s (and the 80/90 90 Elmarit R/M) were "the beginning" of the transition to the modern, crystalline "Solms-y" Leica look - which is why the M versions survived in the line for decades afterwards, and generally "fit in" with the look of the even more modern lenses.

 

Hello Andy,

 

You are looking at the First Summicron-R, 50mm lens.

 

I was writing about about the Second 50mm, Summicron-R.

 

Pretty much of a copy of the 1930's Summar in terms of optical design.

 

Altho I would think that there had been some improvements in optical glasses & coatings, etc involved.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited by Michael Geschlecht
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