Leica Ends Free Sensor Replacement for M9/Monochrom Bodies

[M9reno]

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Since the release of the corrosion-resistant sensor, I never stopped regretting the part-exchange of my M9 during the heat of Corrosiongate. I had doubted that Leica would come through on its promise, and was the first here to admit my mistake (Post no. 3).

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249569-leica-m9-corrosion-sensor-replacement-starts-now/

 

It is not pleasant to be proved right, in the end, by this new surprise.

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[Chris]

No - 1.204 only works with the corrosion-proof sensor.

 

I don't think this actually works as an indicator anymore. Since Leica released FW 1.210 anybody can upgrade to that firmware. You would never know what sensor is in the camera.

My M9 for example hasn't been upgraded so far, but is on FW 1.210.

 

This brings me to the next question. Do you think this is a start of sensor corrosion? Do you think I should send it in? Thanks!

 

 

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[keithlaban.co.uk]

 

This brings me to the next question. Do you think this is a start of sensor corrosion? Do you think I should send it in? Thanks!

 

Undoubtedly.

[Denys]

Undoubtedly.

Yup! Lucky you - just dodged a bullet! :-o

[Chris]

Yup! Lucky you - just dodged a bullet! :-o

 

Thanks for your feedback guys! I hope the prices for used M9s won't plummet now that Leica made this horrid decision. :-(

[dem331]

Well, with no intention of being controversial, I have to say that Leica's offer seems pretty good.

 

If your five year old digital camera develops a critical fault, we will charge you 20% of its original cost and give you back an "as new overhauled" camera. If it is less than five years old, we will repair it for free.

 

Obviously the communication has not been good, or the toing and froing, otherwise you guys wouldn't be so upset.

 

But the offer itself seems good to me. Looking at it from the outside, through the eyes of a non-M9 owner, this reinforces my high opinion of Leica.

[Jager]

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... I hope the prices for used M9s won't plummet now that Leica made this horrid decision. :-(

 

Prices for used M9's will absolutely plummet.  I'd venture this new policy will cut them in half.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Jager

[-Lss-]

Bad news. I am very disappointed.

 

I am sorry for everyone I have recommended the M9 to who now gets burned by the replacement cost or the M9 price drop.

[Jager]

Eight years ago I took my 1997 Toyota Tacoma pickup to the dealer for a simple state inspection.  Fifteen minutes and fifteen bucks and I'd be out of there.

Alas, no.  The service manager came out a few minutes later with a frown on his face and said "I've got some bad news. Your frame is rusted through. It won't pass inspection."

He went on to say that Toyota had had frame rust issues with several model years - they were apparently not properly coated - and because of that, was offering a buy-back option. Would I be interested?

A couple days later I was at work when Toyota corporate called.  Now my truck was in pretty decent shape, frame issues aside.  But it had over 300,000 miles on it. I estimated its market value at maybe $1,500 - $2,000. When the fellow on the other end said "We can give you $8,000 for your truck.  Will that do?" I stammered out a shocked "yes, I think that will be fine."

The point is that it is not particularly unusual for a manufacturer to have inherent manufacturing defects.  And that some of those remain undiscovered for years.  But it's how the company deals with them that makes all the difference.

 

Was Toyota nuts to pay me 40% of the new price on a vehicle with over 300,000 miles on it?  Perhaps.  Me thinks they were crazy like a fox.  They took a situation that likely would have spelled the end of our long relationship - that truck was my third Toyota - and made it a totally positive experience.  And a week later when I went back to the dealership to sign the papers and pick up the check... I walked downstairs to the showroom and bought a brand new Toyota truck.  A year later I bought a second one.

 

Yes, it's true many of us are heavily invested in Leica.  But Wetzlar would be wise to appreciate there are limits to every affinity.  There are other choices out there.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Jager

[jaapv]

It might drive M240 prices up, though

Prices for used M9's will absolutely plummet.  I'd venture this new policy will cut them in half.

[Guest]

 

Horrible news, can any of you m9 old-timers give your opinion over my sensor, this shot is from blue sky over stockholm with f16 this

morning. My understanding is that the black spot is dust the other ones can be corrosion. What's the best way to send the camera to Leica 

from Sweden, I can not see that we have any certified service centers or dealers here

 

 m9-sensor-corrision.JPG

 

Brgds Janne

 

 

 

Yes Janne, that's sensor corrosion, and a pretty bad case too….Get it into Leica right away.

I've had two sensor replacements on my MM1, now the camera has the newest version of the sensor installed which I hope will prove to be as "corrosion resistant" as Leica promises it to be. I would really hate to lose the CCD "look" of the MM1 if the camera failed once again.

[luigi bertolotti]

Thanks for your feedback guys! I hope the prices for used M9s won't plummet now that Leica made this horrid decision. :-(

Well.. Leica used market has always had rules of its own... by logic I'd say :

 

- If the seller can give evidence of a "corrosion free" camera (papers about the exchange) it will keep a decent value 

- If not, AND Leica keeps the current price for Exchange and "overhaul", at least is a known, fixed amount to factor into the price negotiation

 

This, I think, will be expecially the case for the MM1... which I feel that could become (from some signs I seems it's already like this) a sort of iconic model for some passionates of a "certain kind" of BW thanks to some subtle "halo" around the CCD tech...  

[rivi1969]

Prices for used M9's will absolutely plummet.  I'd venture this new policy will cut them in half.

 

Yes and no. M9s with new sensors will sell for at least $500-$750 more that their current used prices. M9s without the replaced sensor... yes, they will now sell for a little less. 

[tobey bilek]

I think I bought my last Leica.   If I am going to get hosed,  I will let Nikon do it.  Remember impact damage .

[Denys]

Well, with no intention of being controversial, I have to say that Leica's offer seems pretty good.

If your five year old digital camera develops a critical fault, we will charge you 20% of its original cost and give you back an "as new overhauled" camera. If it is less than five years old, we will repair it for free.

Obviously the communication has not been good, or the toing and froing, otherwise you guys wouldn't be so upset.

But the offer itself seems good to me. Looking at it from the outside, through the eyes of a non-M9 owner, this reinforces my high opinion of Leica.

I'd like to think that no one posts here to be controversial - but wouldn't be too bothered if they did! You're opinion is as valid as mine, and everyone else's here. The only couple of things I would pick up on are.. My M9-P didn't, in my view develop a fault (twice, as it happens): I did nothing wrong - no wet cleaning, almost zero lens changes, never used in bad environments. Leica was responsible for fitting a sensor that had a manufacturing defect..it was a problem waiting to happen. Twice. I think what people are unhappy about is the U turn from "we acknowledge the problem and will fix for free forever" to "€1000 thanks". M9 bodies with first generation sensors will have their value fall through the floor..

[IkarusJohn]

My Monochrom is heading back to Leica for an overdue sensor replacement. It is one of the handful of Monochroms Leica agreed to make in silver chrome. As it's effectively become valueless (from a resale perspective), I'm getting the leather redone. Making the camera more personal seems harmless at this stage.

 

This change of heart by Leica seems very ill-advised, it seems to me. Many M9 owners eschewed the M(240) and are now likely buyers of the M10. Excluding the M10 from the upgrade programme is even more baffling. Clearly, flogging off more M(240) cameras is more profitable for Leica than trying to meet the backlog of M10 orders.

 

The reasoning for this change of heart is more troubling. Leica must have know there would be a huge backlash - unless someone thought they just might get away with it.

 

If the remaining numbers of M9 series sensors needing replacement was small, I don't think Leica would have run the risk. I suspect their problem remains significant. Too many people like me knowing their sensors need replacement, and just not getting around to replacing them. This strategy brings those owners out of the woodwork.

 

Why do that? Either Leica wants to get people to move on from the CCD sensor based cameras (not a silly idea), or they have a supply problem. I have no doubt at all that these sensors can be manufactured for as long as there's demand, but perhaps the numbers are to low to maintain an acceptable price.

 

As usual, there will be a real problem behind this, but someone at Leica has only half thought it through.

 

Cheers

John

Edited May 16, 2017 by IkarusJohn

[luigi bertolotti]

I'd like to think that no one posts here to be controversial - but wouldn't be too bothered if they did! You're opinion is as valid as mine, and everyone else's here. The only couple of things I would pick up on are.. My M9-P didn't, in my view develop a fault (twice, as it happens): I did nothing wrong - no wet cleaning, almost zero lens changes, never used in bad environments. Leica was responsible for fitting a sensor that had a manufacturing defect..it was a problem waiting to happen. Twice. I think what people are unhappy about is the U turn from "we acknowledge the problem and will fix for free forever" to "€1000 thanks". M9 bodies with first generation sensors will have their value fall through the floor..

 

This is the REAL issue... Leica owners are keen to what the factory declares... and I think that many M9 owners had well in their mind that :

 

"...This goodwill arrangement applies regardless of the age of the camera and also covers sensors that have already been replaced in the past..." (statement of 2014, as previously quoted)

Edited May 16, 2017 by luigi bertolotti

[Nordvik]

1. picture shows something in the center that I think could be corrosion. Is it? It is a 100% crop from the 2. picture (the problem is up and to the left from center there). All taken at f22 with a 50mm.

 

I have never wet cleaned my sensor, and it showes. But I also never use any aperture smaller than f8,0.

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Look here: Leica M

[ynp]

Talked to my Wife who shoots her M8-2 Safari and she plans to keep her camera and won't take over my M9. I do not like typ 240 cameras and never planned to upgrade to the M240.

 

I am disappointed that there is no option to upgrade my m9 to the M10. It's unfair.

 

I, among many people, was interested to move to the M10 gradually. Now my M9 with a un-upgraded sensor will be terribly difficult to sell for a reasonable money and help to finance the M10.

 

Dissatisfied with Leica's decision. After the problems with the goodwill program to fix S lenses I have already promised myself to stop spending my money with Leica and now they are announcing another bomb. Destroying all the trust of this hardcore group of users. Terrible!

Edited May 16, 2017 by ynp

[ynp]

I have a Texan Leica somewhere and a fridge of roll film. It will my backup if my m9 develop the corrosion. He he he.

 

I am a bit reluctant to throw good money after bad. What a joke!