Leica Ends Free Sensor Replacement for M9/Monochrom Bodies

[oldwino]

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Are class-action lawsuits possible in Germany? If so, this seems like a good candidate for one.

[hlockwood]

Timing is not good for me. My M9-P hit the 5 year mark in Jan. 2017 and has not shown any sign of corrosion. So, it appears that I'm out of luck. However, I did purchase a one-year warranty extension to the original warranty; I'll have to ask Leica if that gives me until Jan. 2018 to act.

 

HFL

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[Guest jvansmit]

I'm completely bummed off at this news! 

 

I sold my first MM to buy an M246, sold that, and have recently bought a lightly used, original sensor MM with no sign of corrosion (along with a new 24mm Elmar) so now I have a 'contingent liability' which Leica has cynically transferred from their balance sheet to mine. The 'guarantee' against sensor corrosion was probably the only rational part of my decision to return to using the MM.

 

It seems to me that Leica has decided to completely abandon its traditional customer base. What on earth has happened to the old Leica we all once knew and  perhaps even loved?

 

It’s about time that Leica reconsidered how to demonstrate real value to its customers beyond simply supplying a highly priced camera.

Leica service needs to move beyond a very average retail experience with its supply-chain issues, and stretch to adding value that can’t be obtained anywhere else, and they need to demonstrate their loyalty to customers rather than trying to gain ours. Sadly, the once strong emotional connection & trust with customers seems now to have been severely fractured.

Edited May 17, 2017 by jvansmit

[Ronazle]

My two M-8's with a multitude of problems (I am counting the IR sensitivity as a problem) were more than a little disappointment and inconvenience (remember all those IR blocking filters): now Leica is clearly renouncing their previously published policy on M9 sensor replacement  I am really unhappy in that I have a M9 which might fail; makes one think twice about future acquisitions.  Very disappointing. Regards, Ron

[MarkP]

As I posted in #51 I think it's worth sending any M9 iteration in for a sensor check. I couldn't see any early corrosion but they did and replaced the sensor. Just send the camera in, or say you think there's corrosion rather than dust. They're obliged to check it. Just book the camera in before the deadline.

Edited May 17, 2017 by MarkP

[Guest jvansmit]

_{From Leica's original announcement of the CCD replacement policy:}

 

_{"For us, it is important that we offer only technically faultless products. We are therefore particularly sorry if the imaging quality of your camera should be adversely affected in any way. We hope that the goodwill arrangement we have decided upon will allow us to remedy the problem as soon as possible and rebuild and maintain the trust you have always placed in our brand."}

Edited May 17, 2017 by jvansmit

[bybrett]

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Somebody in another forum maintains that if my (original spec) sensor was replaced 2 years ago it still has 3 years protection as the Leica warranty for sensor repairs is 5 years. Could that be true?

 

 

Leica's latest statement seems to have confirmed that it offers a 5 year manufacturer's warranty on new products and a 1 year warranty on repairs outside of that warranty … notwithstanding previous promises to the contrary

[earleygallery]

I don't think Leica expected this announcement to result in a deluge of M9/MM's being returned to them now for sensor issues!

 

I'm sure the service guys are going to be extra busy for a few months.

[jaapv]

 I had a long conversation with some people at Leica, and I think now that I (we) are being a little harsh on them.

Their sin is the old and well-known one: inept communication both now and in 2014 (although 2014 may be excusable in the scramble to save their reputation in the face of the Internet storm)

 

Facts of the matter:

As the M9 gets older, Customer Service has more and more work repairing all the other problems they find in cameras sent in for sensor swap. After all, 5 years of intensive use will have a digital-mechanical piece of gear in need of a check-up and overhaul.

 

The sensor is still supplied for free. ( It costs 1300 Euro net!), but Leica decided that they had to charge the average labour cost. Which is at least defensible.

 

I still don't like the fact that they promised one thing in 2014 and retract it three years later, but it would have helped a lot if they had communicated the underlying reason at the same time.

Luigi was spot-on in his post, BTW.

[jaapv]

On a sidenote, my M9 and MM1 will be on their way to Wetzlar next week for a sensor clean and check-up

[antigallican]

I'm completely bummed off at this news!

 

I sold my first MM to buy an M246, sold that, and have recently bought a lightly used, original sensor MM with no sign of corrosion (along with a new 24mm Elmar) so now I have a 'contingent liability' which Leica has cynically transferred from their balance sheet to mine. The 'guarantee' against sensor corrosion was probably the only rational part of my decision to return to using the MM.

 

It seems to me that Leica has decided to completely abandon its traditional customer base. What on earth has happened to the old Leica we all once knew and perhaps even loved?

 

It’s about time that Leica reconsidered how to demonstrate real value to its customers beyond simply supplying a highly priced camera.

Leica service needs to move beyond a very average retail experience with its supply-chain issues, and stretch to adding value that can’t be obtained anywhere else, and they need to demonstrate their loyalty to customers rather than trying to gain ours. Sadly, the once strong emotional connection & trust with customers seems now to have been severely fractured.

I'm sorry to contradict you, but my experience of Leica service is that it is outstandingly good. I sent in an M9 for an unrelated issue, they repaired that and supplied and fitted its second new sensor free of charge while it was in Wetzlar. I have in a drawer a couple of unrepairable cameras and a light meter from other manufacturers. I should chuck them really. I also have a 1928 Zeiss which works perfectly. There comes a moment when the upkeep belongs entirely to the owner, surely, and Leica aren't even saying we've reached that point with M9 et al

[Jager]

When the original news about the sensor problem broke a few years ago I worried about the financial implications for Leica.  Thanks to the graces of Herr Kaufmann, Leica has seemingly been doing well in recent years... but it is important to remember they are a small company and that just a few years prior they were staring at death's door.  The financial implications of replacing many/most sensors in extant M9 cameras might have been existential.

 

The fact that Leica wavered and waffled such as they did, would suggest that it was a very significant financial hardship.

 

But what choice did they have?  They really were left with with a Hobson's Choice... either step up and absorb the hit of the M9 sensor problem; or foist it upon their customers to deal with and likely end up forever losing a great many of those customers.  As we all know, they ultimately did the right thing.

 

And now they've changed their mind.

 

Beyond the M9 imbroglio, Leica has a choice.  They can - as they have for decades - present and publicize their products as timeless, classic, durable workhorses that last for years.  Or, they can embrace a paradigm that emphasizes rapid change and obsolescence.

 

These days, it would seem, they have chosen the latter.

 

The irony - and the argument I would offer were I having lunch with their executive team - is that in today's digital world, obsolescence is already effectively wired in.  There's no need to wrap your reputation and your product line in that coat.

 

My M9 was once my primary camera.  Now it mostly just sits in the cabinet, its use superseded first by the M240, now by the M10.  Likewise my MM.

 

The slow march of time is in Leica's favor.  Every day that goes by diminishes the number of pictures taken with that star-crossed generation of cameras.  All Leica had to do was wait.

 

As for having to deal with an increasing number of problems on cameras sent in for sensor replacement... Leica could easily have stated that sensors would continue to be replaced free of charge - along with any requisite steps such as leatherette replacement - but that any other checks, diagnostics, or repairs not related to the sensor replacement were on the owner.  Who could have a problem with that?

 

Alas, sometimes we're our own worst enemy.  

[jaapv]

When the original news about the sensor problem broke a few years ago I worried about the financial implications for Leica.  Thanks to the graces of Herr Kaufmann, Leica has seemingly been doing well in recent years... but it is important to remember they are a small company and that just a few years prior they were staring at death's door.  The financial implications of replacing many/most sensors in extant M9 cameras might have been existential.

 

The fact that Leica wavered and waffled such as they did, would suggest that it was a very significant financial hardship.

 

But what choice did they have?  They really were left with with a Hobson's Choice... either step up and absorb the hit of the M9 sensor problem; or foist it upon their customers to deal with and likely end up forever losing a great many of those customers.  As we all know, they ultimately did the right thing.

 

And now they've changed their mind.

 

Beyond the M9 imbroglio, Leica has a choice.  They can - as they have for decades - present and publicize their products as timeless, classic, durable workhorses that last for years.  Or, they can embrace a paradigm that emphasizes rapid change and obsolescence.

 

These days, it would seem, they have chosen the latter.

 

The irony - and the argument I would offer were I having lunch with their executive team - is that in today's digital world, obsolescence is already effectively wired in.  There's no need to wrap your reputation and your product line in that coat.

 

My M9 was once my primary camera.  Now it mostly just sits in the cabinet, its use superseded first by the M240, now by the M10.  Likewise my MM.

 

The slow march of time is in Leica's favor.  Every day that goes by diminishes the number of pictures taken with that star-crossed generation of cameras.  All Leica had to do was wait.

 

As for having to deal with an increasing number of problems on cameras sent in for sensor replacement... Leica could easily have stated that sensors would continue to be replaced free of charge - along with any requisite steps such as leatherette replacement - but that any other checks, diagnostics, or repairs not related to the sensor replacement were on the owner.  Who could have a problem with that?

 

Alas, sometimes we're our own worst enemy.  

Exactly.. And in that case one could argue the merits of an average as opposed to individual billing.

[Ronazle]

While the decision may be understandable and perhaps unavoidable one fact remains: Leica is not living up to its word. Some people purchased M-9s on the strength of Leica's public pronouncements that have now been refuted. While this sort of behavior is not uncommon it is unacceptable and does not inspire trust. Regards, Ron

[jaapv]

That is  miscommunication at work: The sensor is still free of cost, it is the labour of the camera refurbishing  that is being charged. Leica should have made it clear from the start.  We could have had an untainted discussion.

 

Time and time again we run up against situations like this. From the IR filter situation on the M8 onwards till now. (Leica should have explained the thin-IR filter situation as the camera was introduced!). Remember the mini-M fiasco? It did untold harm to a brilliant camera.

[luigi bertolotti]

That is  miscommunication at work...

Remember the mini-M fiasco? It did untold harm to a brilliant camera.

 

 Lot of fun, I remember well... a little masterpiece of viral marketing in a completely WRONG direction... ... target customers who probably hadn't idea of what M means for other people... and "legacy" customers excited around the concept of "digital CL"... being CL, in turn, a trademark which says nothing to the real potential newbies, so that even in case of interchange of communication between the two groups the "Transfer of excitement and expectation" nullifies...

Edited May 17, 2017 by luigi bertolotti

[johnwolf]

That is  miscommunication at work: The sensor is still free of cost, it is the labour of the camera refurbishing  that is being charged. Leica should have made it clear from the start.  We could have had an untainted discussion....

 

Jaap, this sounds like spin to me, perhaps reformulated for the backlash. From the announcement:

 

Here, the customer pays a share of the replacement costs for the affected CCD sensor amounting to 982 euros (825 euros plus 19% VAT). Included in this programme is a free general overhaul* of your Leica M camera

 

The customer pays for the sensor; it's those additional services that are free.The opposite of what they are now saying. With language this clear and specific, it's hard to see it as faulty communication.  

 

John 

Edited May 17, 2017 by johnwolf

[wattsy]

That is  miscommunication at work: The sensor is still free of cost, it is the labour of the camera refurbishing  that is being charged. Leica should have made it clear from the start.  We could have had an untainted discussion.

 

 

Are you being serious? Are Leica offering a free sensor replacement only (including the labour associated with replacing the sensor) option as an alternative to the €982 sensor replacement with general overhaul? I thought not.

 

This new information might put a different slant on the matter but it doesn't change the situation for anyone who needs a sensor replaced after August. The statement made in 2014 about replacing the sensor, no matter how old the camera, was unambiguous and many people would have bought or held onto an M9 or Monochrom based on that information. No matter how you spin the new announcement, Leica are reneging on that promise.

 

I no longer have a digital Leica but I could easily have been caught by this new policy if I'd decided to keep my Monochrom that I bought in October 2012. That camera had the sensor replaced in early 2015 with the old type sensor. If I still had this camera and the replacement sensor started to go bad later this year I'd be on the hook for the €982 charge to fix a defect that was inherent to the camera. If I had decided to keep the camera that decision would have been made in the knowledge that the replacement old-type sensor was effectively guaranteed for the life of the camera. Clearly that 'guarantee/promise' wasn't worth much and I'm sure I won't be the only one raising my eyebrows the next time I hear the company make a commitment about anything.

Edited May 17, 2017 by wattsy

[valstadsve]

Hi everyone,

 

Thank you all for useful information over the years. Now it seems I must bother everyone with my sensor woes. Could this be corrosion? This is from my Monochrom, which turns five mid-August this year.

 

 

(Please follow link to gallery, there are four samples.)

 

Thanks again,

 

Kjetil

Edited May 17, 2017 by valstadsve

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[Jager]

Are you being serious? Are Leica offering a free sensor replacement only (including the labour associated with replacing the sensor) option as an alternative to the €982 sensor replacement with general overhaul? I thought not.

 

This new information might put a different slant on the matter but it doesn't change the situation for anyone who needs a sensor replaced after August. The statement made in 2014 about replacing the sensor, no matter how old the camera, was unambiguous and many people would have bought or held onto an M9 or Monochrom based on that information. No matter how you spin the new announcement, Leica are reneging on that promise.

 

Exactly.

 

My suggestion that Leica separate the cost of sensor replacement from general overhaul/adjustment/repair insists that the latter be discretionary on the part of the customer.

 

Requiring a "contribution" from the customer for sensor replacement, notwithstanding that it comes bundled with "free refurbishment" is disingenuous.  And that is about the kindest thing I can say about it.