Has anyone tried the 50mm APO on the M-10

[01af]

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The aperture ring on mine used to be more loose than appreciated—it took a Leica technician a couple of minutes to fix it. Of course, if you don't happen to be close to a service point then it would be extremely annoying to send a lens in and wait for weeks just for such a minor trifle.

[pnoble]

I am actually relatively close by Leica USA HQ, but damn it this is a ~$8,000 lens. I just imagined that they had decided to make the aperture ring very smooth and low resistance as a design choice. Meanwhile, several people on this forum have complained and I haven't seen anyone defend this choice.

 

Many have said they keep their lens permanently fully open. Hard to do when even the slightest friction against a bag surface or hand can result in a fully closed aperture. I personally find the lens otherwise perfect. Quality, size, hood design is fine for me assuming it won't further loosen over time.

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[otto.f]

Is it smoother than the 35 FLE? Which is also quite prone to roll in every direction when pulling out of the bag.

[pnoble]

Is it smoother than the 35 FLE? Which is also quite prone to roll in every direction when pulling out of the bag.

 

I have no way to objectively measure but I would subjectively say that the APO 50 aperture ring has around 50% of the resistance to turning of the 35 FLE. The FLE is also much louder as it moves from half stop to half stop. Maybe Leica felt a smoother, silkier, quieter action was in keeping with the APO 50's premium pricing.  But at the expense of practicality, unfortunately.

Edited May 11, 2017 by pnoble

[otto.f]

Yes, in using it for video very smooth is an advantage. But then again, in my old Summitar it works completely silent with very smooth dents and it still doesn't move spontaneously

Edited May 12, 2017 by otto.f

[pnoble]

Yes, in using it for video very smooth is an advantage. But then again, in my old Summitar it works completely silent with very smooth dents and it still doesn't move spontaneously

Good point, Otto, but I have to imagine that for every owner attempting aperture pull in video there are hundreds simply wanting the aperture ring to stay where it was set. The APO 50 is not designed or marketed as a cinema lens and aperture pull is pretty rare even in feature film production, best I know.

[dugby]

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The Summilux-M 50 mm Asph is an excellent lens but the Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph is even better.

 

Example: Shoot a high-detail scene, such as a landscape or cityscape from long distance (50 m/150 ft or more) with the Summilux at f/2.8. Inspect the fine detail at image height 10 - 11 mm (0 mm being the center, 12 mm the upper & lower edges in landscape orientation, 18 mm the left & right edges, and 21.6 mm the farthest corners). There, you'll find some blur that looks like camera shake but isn't. The Apo-Summicron is free from that.

 

Moreover, the Apo-Summicron has finer bokeh and less lateral chromatic aberrations than the Summilux. And generally, it has an etheral quality of clarity and transparency that's hard to describe with words ... as if the image just appears on the sensor all by itself, with no lens involved.

 

I was using the Summilux-M 50 mm Asph for about four years as my primary standard lens, so I'm fairly confident that I'm able to assess its qualities properly. For three years now, I am using the Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph instead, and it most definitely is the finer lens.

Whilst I have the M240, with both APO-Summicron-M 50mm and Summilux-M 50mm ASPH,  I totally agree with the above summary.

 

The 50APO is just how Peter Karbe explains it in the video posted by Thorsten.  I recall, Karbe describes how just one glass element in the 50APO is more expensive to make than all the combined elements of the 50Lux. This in itself, is a significant indicator about the efforts he went to, in getting the lens to market.

 

If anyone is considering a 50APO vs 50Lux, then the Karbe interview is a "must-watch" many times over. It's easily found by googling "Karbe APO"

 

 

The 50APO is my preferred lens over my 50Lux and 35FLE, but I use the 50Lux for when I want razor thin DOF, and 35FLE when I need wider views.

[Jeff S]

The 50APO is just how Peter Karbe explains it in the video posted by Thorsten. I recall, Karbe describes how just one glass element in the 50APO is more expensive to make than all the combined elements of the 50Lux.

 

.

I think you've mixed up two different Karbe interviews. It was in his 2009 Shutterbug interview regarding the new version of the 50-M Summilux ASPH that he stated that just one new glass element cost more than all the glass elements in the prior Summilux version...

 

http://www.shutterbug.com/content/leica-lens-saga-interview-peter-karbe#6lfqbdWKA6lDpVbo.97

 

Jeff

[01af]

If anyone is considering an Apo-Summicron-M 50 Asph vs Summilux-M 50 Asph then the Karbe interview is a "must-watch" many times over.

No, it's not. It sure is worth watching for anyone interested ... but in no way a must.

 

When the Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph was announced but not yet available back in Spring 2012, I had ten minutes to fire a few test shots with a pre-production sample on my own camera in the parking lot in front of the Leica plant in Solms and to compare it to my Summilux-M 50 mm Asph. This was all it took to convince me that this lens is something special, and that I want it.

 

 

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Test Shot in the Parking Lot, Solms 2012

Leica M9; Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph

50 mm; f/2.8; 1/2000 s; ISO 160/23°

 

 

So—just go visit your dealer and fire a couple of test shots with the Apo-Summicron and your current 50 mm lens on your own camera. Then load the pictures up to your laptop (or whatever) and look at them at 50 % view (generous print size) and 100 % view (full resolution). If you don't see any worthwhile difference to the same picture taken with some other lens then the Apo-Summicron is not for you. Otherwise, it's going to be a costly experience

[M11 for me]

No, it's not. It sure is worth watching for anyone interested ... but in no way a must.

When the Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph was announced but not yet available back in Spring 2012, I had ten minutes to fire a few test shots with a pre-production sample on my own camera in the parking lot in front of the Leica plant in Solms and to compare it to my Summilux-M 50 mm Asph. This was all it took to convince me that this lens is something special, and that I want it.

 

 

ou-2120523-11.jpgTest Shot in the Parking Lot, Solms 2012Leica M9; Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph

50 mm; f/2.8; 1/2000 s; ISO 160/23°

 

 

So—just go visit your dealer and fire a couple of test shots with the Apo-Summicron and your current 50 mm lens on your own camera. Then load the pictures up to your laptop (or whatever) and look at them at 50 % view (generous print size) and 100 % view (full resolution). If you don't see any worthwhile difference to the same picture taken with some other lens then the Apo-Summicron is not for you. Otherwise, it's going to be a costly experience

I am very sorry, but on none of the number plates I can read the numbers of the cars :-(. What is now, according to you, so very special about that lens regarding your photograph! You are so definite about your statement that this APO-lens is so superior. Still I learned so far that regardless of the fact that the 50mm 1,4 Asph is APO or not, the IQ of the "real" APO is superior.

[dugby]

I think you've mixed up two different Karbe interviews. It was in his 2009 Shutterbug interview regarding the new version of the 50-M Summilux ASPH that he stated that just one new glass element cost more than all the glass elements in the prior Summilux version...

 

http://www.shutterbug.com/content/leica-lens-saga-interview-peter-karbe#6lfqbdWKA6lDpVbo.97

 

Jeff

My apologies, this ratifies my wife's claim that I am getting forgetful in my old age... 

 

 

In Karbe's 2009 interview he stated:

 

"For example, the glass I chose for lens element 3 is of crucial importance in minimizing the secondary color aberration. This glass, formerly made at the Leitz glass laboratory, was for a long time offered by another supplier who had taken over its production. But they had stopped making it, so I had to “encourage” another German glassmaker to literally reinvent this glass type. Today this glass is extremely expensive. Indeed, the material for this lens element alone costs as much as the glass used in all the other lens elements of the Summilux 50mm f/1.4 ASPH"

Read more at http://www.shutterbug.com/content/leica-lens-saga-interview-peter-karbe-page-2#z080cYEJZi8O858U.99

[Jeff S]

Yes, I know what he stated....I gave you the link to the interview. Or did you forget?! 

 

Jeff

[tangfj]

I have a M10 and have the 50 APO, 50 Rigid, and 50 Elmar-M.  This is the second time I've owned the 50 APO as the first time I had it was with the M240.   Anyway, the 50 APO is nice on the M10 but to be honest all the 50's I have are great on the M10.  In fact, I had to look pretty hard at the pictures I had when looking between pictures from the 50 APO and 50 Rigid to really see the difference.  The 50 APO did indeed have better micro contrast than the old 50 Rigid but I was really surprised to see how well the old rigid stacked up given its age.  My Elmar-M is at Leica now getting cleaned up so I haven't been able to compare against that.

 

Anyway, to the OP, if money is no issue then get the 50 APO... you won't be unhappy and the lens can actually be found used for halfway decent prices (at least compared to retail)... otherwise just stick with your Elmar-M and save the cash for a different focal length.

[01af]

 

[...]

 

ou-2120523-11.jpg

Test Shot in the Parking Lot, Solms 2012

Leica M9; Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph

50 mm; f/2.8; 1/2000 s; ISO 160/23°

 

[...]

I am very sorry, but on none of the number plates I can read the numbers of the cars :-( ...

 

Sheesh ... of course not

 

The picture is scaled down and compressed. It is shown here just to demonstrate what mundane a test shot is sufficient to assess the Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph's qualities ... using the original files of this picture, of course, and another of the same subject taken with the Summilux-M 50 mm Asph for direct comparison.

[otto.f]

Very informative

[scott kirkpatrick]

Two from today with the APO 50 on my M10.  Just people enjoying a sunny Saturday in Jerusalem:

 

http://www.pbase.com/skirkp/image/165453468/original.jpg

 

http://www.pbase.com/skirkp/image/165453478/original.jpg 

 

scott

Edited May 13, 2017 by scott kirkpatrick

[phongph]

Hi All!

It is just my feeling the IQ/ sharpness of M Apo 50 on SL 601 and M10!

I feel that the sharpness of Apo 50 on SL at f2.0 is from edge to edge, top to bottom, left to right of frame. But at f2.0, I feel that the sharpness of Apo 50 on M50, focused at the subject & center and reduce the sharpness to the edge, so the image looks more 3D on M10 and I like it. The IQ of Apo 50 is the same on SL and M10. It is just my private idea on my Apo 50 with my SL 601 and M10.

Ps: I feel that my M 75 Lux f1.4 at 1.4 is very easy to focuss on SL 601 by the peaking. And M 75 Lux at f1.4 is acceptable to focus by RF and better focus by LV/ peaking assisstant on M10.

Have a nice weekend!

Thanks!

[M11 for me]

My apologies, this ratifies my wife's claim that I am getting forgetful in my old age... 

 

 

In Karbe's 2009 interview he stated:

 

"For example, the glass I chose for lens element 3 is of crucial importance in minimizing the secondary color aberration. This glass, formerly made at the Leitz glass laboratory, was for a long time offered by another supplier who had taken over its production. But they had stopped making it, so I had to “encourage” another German glassmaker to literally reinvent this glass type. Today this glass is extremely expensive. Indeed, the material for this lens element alone costs as much as the glass used in all the other lens elements of the Summilux 50mm f/1.4 ASPH"

Read more at http://www.shutterbug.com/content/leica-lens-saga-interview-peter-karbe-page-2#z080cYEJZi8O858U.99

 

 

But in that part of the interview they do NOT talk about the APO. That term ist not mentioned. Only later in the interview they talk about the APO 75mm.

[Jeff S]

But in that part of the interview they do NOT talk about the APO. That term ist not mentioned. Only later in the interview they talk about the APO 75mm.

Follow the thread... I provided the link for that very reason, which he acknowledged.

 

As an aside, Karbe mentions in a separate interview (I think with David Farkas) that the 50 Summilux ASPH could have been marketed as an APO lens.... but that's another discussion.

 

Jeff

Edited May 14, 2017 by Jeff S

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[Berlinman]

For me is the 50APO my most used lens. I sold my 50lux after buying it. I see the same point as some of the other users: its is more clean, especially the OOF-rendering. I think a test like 01af description will show this clearly. I think comparing it with the lux it is more a question of the better corrected aberrations than the better APO-correction. My 2nd 50mm is the 1.0-Noct. For me a perfect combination, because it is completely different. If I need an extreme compact lens, I use an old Elmar 2,8/50mm. There are some fans of the Elmar-M in the post above: Is it a good idea to upgrade to the Elmar-M?

Edited May 14, 2017 by Berlinman