Leicaiste Posted January 29, 2017 Share #201 Posted January 29, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) They survived the transition to digital only because of their great, compact lenses and early on no alternatives to FF mirrorless cameras. With technology having advanced much more, it seems now they are on a roll with three winners in a row, the Q, the SL, and the M10. In fact I believe Leica Camera only survived thanks to some crazy guys who invested heavily in the Leica company when it was on the verge to disappear. I mean real investors, not clients. If you looks back at the Leitz/Leica history, the camera and lens business was created, saved or sustained so many times by other products, external investors or some great guys from the internal management. The photography business and the M cameras could have disappeared many time because of the lack of profitability. There is something miraculous in the fact that Leica Camera and the Leica M are still on the market and profitable. It seems that now we can be reassured that Leica will still be there in 2025 to mark the centenary of the first Leica ever sold in 1925. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 Hi Leicaiste, Take a look here Survey: Interested in the new Leica M10?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
DwF Posted January 29, 2017 Share #202 Posted January 29, 2017 I had a chance to handle the M10 yesterday. I was struck at how heavy it is. That could be a deal breaker for me. The M9 is larger but definitely more comfortable in my hands and would be around he neck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted January 29, 2017 Share #203 Posted January 29, 2017 Does the M10 when used with the Visoflex EVF have the facility to enlarge the live view finder image in the same way that the T camera (when used with the Viso and M adapter T ) does? If not, could a firmware upgrade enable same? I could be interested in acquiring an M10 at a later date but would want to use non-M tele lenses (e.g. R lenses via an R to M adapter) and focus via the Viso 020 live view - when a magnified view could improve focusing. I'd also want to use the VISO for close-up imaging - when a magnified live view image would enable accurate focus. After reading several reviews of the M10 I'm impressed by its design, ergonomics, and potential. One reason I did not consider the M240 was its relatively poor resolution Olympus based EVF2 accessory viewfinder. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted January 29, 2017 Share #204 Posted January 29, 2017 Does the M10 when used with the Visoflex EVF have the facility to enlarge the live view finder image in the same way that the T camera (when used with the Viso and M adapter T ) does? If not, could a firmware upgrade enable same? I could be interested in acquiring an M10 at a later date but would want to use non-M tele lenses (e.g. R lenses via an R to M adapter) and focus via the Viso 020 live view - when a magnified view could improve focusing. I'd also want to use the VISO for close-up imaging - when a magnified live view image would enable accurate focus. After reading several reviews of the M10 I'm impressed by its design, ergonomics, and potential. One reason I did not consider the M240 was its relatively poor resolution Olympus based EVF2 accessory viewfinder. dunk Do you mean focus magnification? Yes, this happens automatically with M lenses, and there is a button on the front like the M240 to manually magnify the image for say R lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted January 29, 2017 Share #205 Posted January 29, 2017 I had a chance to handle the M10 yesterday. I was struck at how heavy it is. That could be a deal breaker for me. The M9 is larger but definitely more comfortable in my hands and would be around he neck. according to the specs on the Leica site, they are both nearly the same weight> M10- Weight (with battery) Approx. 600 g (19.3 oz). M9- Weight (with battery) M9 585 g (20.6 oz), M9-P 600 g (21.2 oz). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff S Posted January 29, 2017 Share #206 Posted January 29, 2017 Interesting how the M10 weighs more in metric than the M9 but less in imperial ounces Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted January 29, 2017 Share #207 Posted January 29, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Interesting how the M10 weighs more in metric than the M9 but less in imperial ounces I think they fired the translator. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted January 30, 2017 Share #208 Posted January 30, 2017 I weighed my M10 and M9P on a scale. Weights include a battery and SD card. I removed the straps and body cover. M9P - 604 grams M10 - 651 grams Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted January 30, 2017 Share #209 Posted January 30, 2017 I weighed my M10 and M9P on a scale. Weights include a battery and SD card. I removed the straps and body cover. M9P - 604 grams M10 - 651 grams interesting...I wonder why Leica cant get the weight right. They may need a new scale and a new metric to imperial calculator. You can definitely feel that extra 50 grams...she is one solid beast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted January 31, 2017 Share #210 Posted January 31, 2017 Interesting how the M10 weighs more in metric than the M9 but less in imperial ounces Leica just took account of the fact that the imperial ounce is great again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roofus Posted January 31, 2017 Share #211 Posted January 31, 2017 When you have auto-focus . . . give me a call! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vladik Posted January 31, 2017 Share #212 Posted January 31, 2017 When you have auto-focus . . . give me a call! Dear roofus, Please do not wait for a call that Leica M is now available with auto-focus as it will never happen (maybe in M 25). Do go get yourself one of many wonderful AF cameras available right now – no need to wait for that call. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveNC Posted February 1, 2017 Share #213 Posted February 1, 2017 It would require an M-D version to attract me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventies Posted February 1, 2017 Share #214 Posted February 1, 2017 I have the Leica M-P 240 in silver , and I've paid fully for the store here to get the M10 in silver too, but what he have now is the black one , the problem that I had is the leica summilux-m 35mm f/1.4 asph is in silver , I don't know if the silver lens will looks nice on the black body What do you guys think ? Is it nice to have the Black body with the silver lens ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran D Posted February 1, 2017 Share #215 Posted February 1, 2017 So tempted, but...Sold my ME to get the M240. Loved both for different reasons, but sold the M240 because my aging eyes were having more and more difficulty with the rangefinder. I have both retinal issues and significant astigmatism. So, the improved OVF on the M10 makes it tempting, but I'll stick with my Leica Q and non-Leica cameras for now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skanga Posted February 1, 2017 Share #216 Posted February 1, 2017 I have the Leica M-P 240 in silver , and I've paid fully for the store here to get the M10 in silver too, but what he have now is the black one , the problem that I had is the leica summilux-m 35mm f/1.4 asph is in silver , I don't know if the silver lens will looks nice on the black body What do you guys think ? Is it nice to have the Black body with the silver lens ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Hi Seventies - Yes. I have had that for over 30 years. Just go out and take photographs. That's the best thing you could do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dempski Posted February 1, 2017 Share #217 Posted February 1, 2017 I would like to upgrade, but unfortunately, the EVF feature I use most has been omitted on the M10, the electronic level tool. I bought a WATE for the M8 way back when, and then it sat idle for years until the M240 and EV2 allowed proper framing with Live View, and a level to minimize distortion. Now I use it all the time. Street shooters in urban environments may get by with a grid on the M10 because of the availability of vertical and horizontal lines, but in the natural world these are not always available. I’m worried that this is a signal that Leica feels ultra-wide photography belongs elsewhere, and are withdrawing underlying support for its lenses on the M platform. Why else give us access to a better EVF, but withhold the tools we want the EVF for? M ultra-wide lenses work well on the SL, but that camera is hardly an ideal travel camera, being larger, heavier, and intimidating when photographing people. I’ve asked Leica if the tilt-meter hardware is onboard and can be activated, but they have not responded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larsv Posted February 1, 2017 Share #218 Posted February 1, 2017 I have the Leica M-P 240 in silver , and I've paid fully for the store here to get the M10 in silver too, but what he have now is the black one , the problem that I had is the leica summilux-m 35mm f/1.4 asph is in silver , I don't know if the silver lens will looks nice on the black body What do you guys think ? Is it nice to have the Black body with the silver lens ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro I have that. Looks wonderful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaymanS Posted February 1, 2017 Share #219 Posted February 1, 2017 My M4 and M6 always sat well in my hand and if the M10 being thinner does this and has a similar 0.72 finder, and much more accurate framelines than my M240 had, then the ergonomics of use should be superb and encouraging to innovative composition. 24mp is plenty, weatherproofing is a big advantage. A more detailed EVF (M240's Epson-based model was a very poor off the shelf compromise) is essential for making it useable outside the normal M rangefinder base-line envelop. Hand-held video is only of real effective use if a camera of this form factor has body based multi-axis stabilisation, which Leica are not able to deliver. There are no real issues with the M10 spec except lack of video and battery spec/endurance. I suspect that the battery power requirements are an issue out of legacy designed core processor circuitry and sensor requirements. Video inclusion should not have brought further payload on the circuits given knowledge of how a CMOS sensor works. I imagine the lack of it is born out of an internal purist lobby. Inclusion would only have been a minor ergonomic challenge but possibly one that carried cost or third party technology investment issues or defeated by a minimalist (SL- like) control/layout design directive. I got round much of the above by getting the delightful Q typ116, but its lack of weatherproofing irks a bit and is only fine if you like a 28mm a lot and for everything, but it does return wonderful images. It is used to back up my SL typ601 (with marvelous finder). The latter is needed through a very disappointing lack of more compact SL lens availability a launch. This sadly seems the way of Leica historically. The Q has the same body depth as an M6 and works a treat and its fresh (possibly 3rd party assisted) circuit design allows OIS, video and seems to have less battery payload issues? Why didn't Leica just use the Q's internal design as a basis for the M10 is a valid question. Perhaps third party design agreements didn't allow it or it's a development/timing/investment thing and the company being relatively small is understandably likely trying to preserve work for existing in-house mechanical and electrical engineering. Sadly this doesn't help it compete. Having owned an M8, M9 and M240, none of which at launch were entirely ready for the market or fully thought through, the experience proved these relied on many updates and worse many compromises from the user. It is hard not to feel that such loyalty has not been employed by the company as a product tester/developer and early delivery of revenues resource at some personal cost to the customer ....and all this to be able to use some of the best lenses out there? My question is will an M10 (with what will be the essential and expensive three batteries, a grip and an EVF) be able to replace the more rounded use-ability of an SL? Just as I decide it is Leica, will have quietly done what they did with the R8/R9 and S2 and annoyingly bring out a lighter version, probably in magnesium alloy rather than home grown milled from aluminium, more expenditure dammit! Who was it that said of continuing to do the same thing yet expecting a different result, that way lies madness? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4X5B&W Posted February 1, 2017 Share #220 Posted February 1, 2017 I currently own 3 Leica M's, a 1970 M4, a M240,and a MM1. Interesting the way the MM1 takes me back to the days of shooting B&W on my M4. Similar (but larger) size, wonderful tonal range similar to shooting Plus X or FP4, and extremely high resolution images way beyond what was capable in medium speed film. The M240 while larger and heavier than the other two bodies, does excellent colour images (when processed with Capture One). A very attractive camera. The thought of an improved sensor, improved viewfinder, and smaller size over a M240, is certainly a move in the right direction. For anyone who has only shot digital (whether Leica bodies or larger DSLR cameras) I would recommend finding a M2, 3 or 4 to handle to sense where Leica came from. The Leica M is considered one of the classic ergonomic design.....before anyone knew what ergonomic meant! Great to hear that Leica is looking at it's heritage designs, and updating them with new technology. Being respectful of what made M's classic designs in 1954 can only enhance Leica's reputation moving forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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