Peter H Posted December 21, 2016 Share #21 Posted December 21, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) If the M was a pure rangefinder-only camera it would please some people but would actually gain nothing. It does gain something by having a dual viewfinder arrangement and the better the EVF the better the camera system. If it had an SL-quality detachable EVF it would truly have the best of both worlds, in which case it may very well be worth trading up for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 Hi Peter H, Take a look here Sell M to get M10?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
MarkP Posted December 21, 2016 Share #22 Posted December 21, 2016 Never known such a high turn-over of gear. Keep up the good work. Have you forgotten about Neil? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anickpick Posted December 21, 2016 Share #23 Posted December 21, 2016 I would definitively wait until the M10 is released. I would still not rule out that the M10 might have the exact same sensor as the M240 (ISO 100 - 6400 including pull and push). All one would gain is a very slightly slimmer body and a better EVF. Clearly not enough for most to trade up for. In case I am wrong (I hope so) and the M10 will feature a new 24mp sensor with better dynamic range and high iso, I will most likely go for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted December 21, 2016 Share #24 Posted December 21, 2016 People seem to forget that focus shift is as much an issue with TTL focusing systems as with rangefinders as soon as one uses stop-down aperture after focusing wide open (like any SLR for instance) You would naturally be focussing at your selected aperture anyway... so I don't actually understand what you mean. No-one focuses an M at maximum aperture and then stops it down, its not the way it works... so why would you do anything different? The EVF could be set to keep the brightness setting equal, regardless of aperture, or view showing actual exposure, as the user prefers. What you would always get is the actual depth of field. In addition, you effectively you could do manual exposure direct in the viewfinder too... because you actually see what you are going to get. (Well, I do, I spent years and years with film SLR's which always (well, with very few exceptions) always focussed at full aperture and then closed down to the taking aperture when firing the shutter. The only time you would view with the aperture closed was when you pushed the depth of field preview lever/button... I just don't see it as relevant to a hybrid EVF, so I would welcome an explanation). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted December 21, 2016 Share #25 Posted December 21, 2016 People seem to forget that focus shift is as much an issue with TTL focusing systems as with rangefinders as soon as one uses stop-down aperture after focusing wide open (like any SLR for instance) Not on the SL in my experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 21, 2016 Share #26 Posted December 21, 2016 Why focusing at full aperture? It is not required with modern EVFs anymore, it is time consuming and it is the best way to get trapped by focus shift if any. YMMV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted December 21, 2016 Share #27 Posted December 21, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes but only if it includes an EVF as good as on the SL. [emoji57] If there was an EVF like that on the M10 and a easy connection with my iPhone, they could even drop the back screen imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 21, 2016 Share #28 Posted December 21, 2016 Why focusing at full aperture? It is not required with modern EVFs anymore, it is time consuming and it is the best way to get trapped by focus shift if any. YMMV. Not required in general, but if you want to place the plane of focus precisely without getting lost in DOF it is still neccessary. An EVF cannot change the laws of optics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arno_nyhm Posted December 21, 2016 Share #29 Posted December 21, 2016 is the M10 available yet? when selling your M today, can you get over the hollidays without it/do you have any other cameras to substitute the M? well: there's your answer! the M10s technical specifications might yet be unknown. but i rather wouldn't expect it to be less useable than the M. I'd have a hard time to bellieve, the M10 might be technically less good then the M is. therefore, i have no doubt thinking, that switching to the M10 will be an improvement. of couse you might not need this improvement. and for very sure you might as well be burning money. but then again, as long as the M10 is not available, prices for used M(240) are still high. and if you sell now, your loss from the switch to the new M10 will be less than if you turned it in after the m10 became available. but you will have to wait without having an M in the meantime. and are you really willing to wait for something unknown without an M handy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted December 21, 2016 Share #30 Posted December 21, 2016 Lose some fat? Apparently it's going to be as thin as an MP or something. Hasn't it pretty much been decided that until they change the laws of Physics or have major design changes, the new M will be the same approximate size and weight of the current M240p? What has changed, the sensor thickness, the weight of the metal, smaller battery, will they make the mount stick out a little to accommodate a thinner body? I'd love it smaller and lighter M too but I doubt the physical size is going to be much different than your current camera......for at least the next few model tweaks. I too am on the size bandwagon but a major redesign of the M wont get Leica new M customers.......IMHO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Poole Posted December 21, 2016 Share #31 Posted December 21, 2016 Oh, satijntje, you'd change your camera if the new one had a better serial number. Never known such a high turn-over of gear. Keep up the good work. What is a better serial number? When I picked up my cron the salesman told me that I was lucky, the serial number ended in 8080 which was Bobo, which was baby in Chinese. That obviously sealed the deal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sml_photo Posted December 21, 2016 Share #32 Posted December 21, 2016 Do you have to make the decision today? Or even in 2017? I don't understand the question....or any of the answers. It's not even out yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted December 21, 2016 Share #33 Posted December 21, 2016 We have two eyes. One for the OVF one for the EVF. So far all cameras have left one of these eyes to look at whatever it can. Leica can optimise our vision by providing a photographing task for each one. ETA not to mention the ears. All we have so far is an ever feitening click. Aural communication can do better than this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 21, 2016 Share #34 Posted December 21, 2016 [...] if you want to place the plane of focus precisely without getting lost in DOF it is still neccessary. An EVF cannot change the laws of optics. Not sure what experience you have with modern EVFs but i've never found it necessary to focus 21mm to 280mm lenses at full aperture so far. Suffice it to bring up magnification and you're done. Some (overly optimistic?) SL owners have even gone so far as to say that they don't need to magnify at all... Anyway those test snaps have been shot and focused on purpose at f/16 with a modest A7s mod with CV 21/4 lens (9 & 12MB files). As far as laws of optics are concerned i suspect that magnification must be taken into account but i'm no techie at all. https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Samples/i-9HCp32k/0/O/DSC03825_c1si.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Samples/i-GHStVhv/0/O/DSC03833_c1si.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted December 21, 2016 Share #35 Posted December 21, 2016 I wouldnt sell my M until a) the M10 is available at dealers to buy I have read the first reviews and heard the first experiencesc) there is a real convincing reason to upgrade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted December 21, 2016 Share #36 Posted December 21, 2016 I suspect the M 240 will be the last M camera I buy. To me it is like I've been given a nuclear bomb to light up my cigarette. Can't even imagine what a future M could have more useful to me than what I have in my hands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted December 21, 2016 Share #37 Posted December 21, 2016 ...lets assume that it will have a SL sensor and T viewfinder and no video that I am not interested in anyway. Thank you. Aboslutely NO, provided the above assumption... (to be precise : only possibility for yes is the absurd hipotesis that buy of M10 less sale of my M results in less than 1KEuro net... this could Worth 2 years of warranty and the pleasure of "unboxing a NEW"... ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted December 21, 2016 Share #38 Posted December 21, 2016 I'd sell my M-P to help fund a Noctilux. Or a Hasselblad X1D, once they're a little more readily available. I wouldn't make any statement about what I'd sell to fund an "M10" until I knew better what buying it would net me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted December 21, 2016 Share #39 Posted December 21, 2016 I suspect the M 240 will be the last M camera I buy.... Hey... I suspect from your name that we share the year of birth... but I don't feel SO old not to survive to my M... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted December 21, 2016 Share #40 Posted December 21, 2016 Hey... I suspect from your name that we share the year of birth... but I don't feel SO old not to survive to my M... Luigi, we are two young fellas, but I suspect my M will last longer than I will. It's a great camera and has more than I need. Given that we are talking of at least 7000 euros, I do not think I will change it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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