mmradman Posted May 10, 2018 Share #2101 Posted May 10, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) i like this sample from the new XCD 21mm https://cdn.hasselblad.com/samples/B0001395.jpg Thanks for the link. Considering that X1D has no LENR [long exposure noise reduction] like all other digital Leica cameras than new XCD 21mm is very attractive alternative to Super Elmar -L 16-35mm for night shooting, and any other wide shooting. Also cheaper and more modest 77mm filter thread. As much as i don't need (or want to start spending) better camera than SL601 that Hasselblad is getting more attractive proposition by the day, plus HB seems to be updating FW all the time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 Hi mmradman, Take a look here Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
frame-it Posted May 10, 2018 Share #2102 Posted May 10, 2018 and apparently really listening to feedback while building new firmware Thanks for the link. Considering that X1D has no LENR [long exposure noise reduction] like all other digital Leica cameras than new XCD 21mm is very attractive alternative to Super Elmar -L 16-35mm for night shooting, and any other wide shooting. Also cheaper and more modest 77mm filter thread. As much as i don't need (or want to start spending) better camera than SL601 that Hasselblad is getting more attractive proposition by the day, plus HB seems to be updating FW all the time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted May 10, 2018 Share #2103 Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) just for fun..try the fuji GFX as well... https://youtu.be/GgnsixlitkI?t=1m15s Thank you for that photo. I have tried the X1D and love the images, but the slow shutter gives me pause, as I'd like to use the X1D in more versatile settings. I'm going to compare the S 007, as well. Edited May 10, 2018 by frame-it 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted May 10, 2018 Share #2104 Posted May 10, 2018 and apparently really listening to feedback while building new firmware Leica may be best optical lens designer and manufacturer but still need to learn few things, one being listening to customers in XXI century - the age of social media. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted May 10, 2018 Share #2105 Posted May 10, 2018 this company is pretty comparable when it comes to lens quality https://youtu.be/cL74_00fWPY Leica may be best optical lens designer and manufacturer but still need to learn few things, one being listening to customers in XXI century - the age of social media. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 10, 2018 Share #2106 Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) Thank you for that photo. I have tried the X1D and love the images, but the slow shutter gives me pause, as I'd like to use the X1D in more versatile settings. I'm going to compare the S 007, as well.The X1D does exhibit some blackout time, but this shouldn’t be confused with shutter lag, which is minimal. The first click is almost instant, which is the actual picture taking, with the remaining clicks resetting the shutter. So, yes, it lends itself to more deliberate shooting, not quick bursts, but shutter lag is not an issue. And the leaf shutter has the added advantage of no vibrations, increasing hand-hold-ability, especially with lenses lacking OIS. FW now provides for e-shutter, but that has its limitations. Jeff Edited May 10, 2018 by Jeff S 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lx1713 Posted May 10, 2018 Share #2107 Posted May 10, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) HB is 61mm (sensor diagonal 55mm), SL 49mm (sensor diagonal 44mm)..... so I doubt there is enough room even for a chopped down MF sensor Looking at a ALPA 12, I would disagree with you respectfully but not disagreeably Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted May 10, 2018 Share #2108 Posted May 10, 2018 The X1D does exhibit some blackout time, but this shouldn’t be confused with shutter lag, which is minimal. The first click is almost instant, which is the actual picture taking, with the remaining clicks resetting the shutter. So, yes, it lends itself to more deliberate shooting, not quick bursts, but shutter lag is not an issue. And the leaf shutter has the added advantage of no vibrations, increasing hand-hold-ability, especially with lenses lacking OIS. FW now provides for e-shutter, but that has its limitations. Jeff It's the second click that's the shutter firing. The first is it closing (stopping live view) the last is reset. So there is a very short shutter delay. You learn to time it pretty quickly but it's there. One of the limitations of the sensor as there's no first curtain electronic shutter. I don't know if the new version (the 100PM sensor) allows EFCS. The new firmware was another fantastic update. Now ALL my HC lenses have AF (very close to native speed too). I want a live histogram and focus bracketing but not much else. I'm top of the list for the 21mm in Oz but that means the end of the month. In the meantime I'll stuggle through with the stunning HC24mm . And as a bonus the HC lenses work perfectly on my S body as well so I have a rounded out set of glass for the S007 as well. Gordon 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted May 10, 2018 Share #2109 Posted May 10, 2018 Thank you for that photo. I have tried the X1D and love the images, but the slow shutter gives me pause, as I'd like to use the X1D in more versatile settings. I'm going to compare the S 007, as well. There is a small delay on the X1D. But the 007 has that honkin' great mirror to get out of the way. So it too feels slower than a speedy 35mm camera. The X1D *feels* slower but I don't think, in use, there's that much difference. I've not done any significant testing side by side.And in studio and for portraits the timing is easy to adjust to. Sport would be a bit of fun but the AF is more an issue than a small shutter prep. Gordon 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted May 10, 2018 Share #2110 Posted May 10, 2018 I'm also considering switching to the X1D. I'm getting out of the M system and have to decide whether to dive all-in to the SL (I own a body but no native lenses) or switch to the X1D. For considered shooting or landscapes with an emphasis on a small set of primes, the X1D. For speed, versatility and range the SL. I too am thinking of getting out of the M, especially when the SL50mm f2 arrives as I think the SL primes are better than the M ones. But I'll have both systems and use them where appropriate. Gordon 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropo54 Posted May 10, 2018 Share #2111 Posted May 10, 2018 Having tried the X1D and now having the S007 to tryout for a couple of days, I think the S is noticeably faster. Maybe I'm deluding myself as I am not hearing that "clackety-clack" x 3! Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted May 10, 2018 Share #2112 Posted May 10, 2018 I too am thinking of getting out of the M, especially when the SL50mm f2 arrives as I think the SL primes are better than the M ones. Gordon, What do you expect the Summicron 50mm to bring to the table that the Summilux 50mm doesn't? Except perhaps for a modest gain in weight? Thanks, Joris. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted May 10, 2018 Share #2113 Posted May 10, 2018 Having tried the X1D and now having the S007 to tryout for a couple of days, I think the S is noticeably faster. Maybe I'm deluding myself as I am not hearing that "clackety-clack" x 3! Rob, What would be your reasons for going X1D or S007 as opposed to the SL? Is it purely driven by image quality? Thanks, Joris. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 10, 2018 Share #2114 Posted May 10, 2018 Having tried the X1D and now having the S007 to tryout for a couple of days, I think the S is noticeably faster. Maybe I'm deluding myself as I am not hearing that "clackety-clack" x 3! Rob I think the clickety clack is deceiving, but haven’t done scientific tests. As Gordon notes, the honking mirror in the S is a different issue, which also affects vibrations and ideal shutter speeds for handholding. The X1D shutter sound, though, is annoying. For me, the key differences between the S and the X1D relate to OVF vs EVF preferences, size and weight, aspect ratio and lens selection. Both have good control interfaces and ergonomics, as well as terrific IQ and color. And there has been reliability issues with both systems.... I think the SL wins out on that basis, so far. For me, the X1D has improved more than anticipated by FW updates, but still needs some fixes that will require a new iteration (forgetting about MP). Not sure where the S system is heading. Jeff 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropo54 Posted May 11, 2018 Share #2115 Posted May 11, 2018 (edited) Rob, What would be your reasons for going X1D or S007 as opposed to the SL? Is it purely driven by image quality? Thanks, Joris. Joris: Long-story short: Yes. Initially, I was thinking that the SL system with its zooms was just too bulky and massive to carry about on a whim. This is hobby for me, so my needs may be different than others. The thought, after trying out the Hb, was to simply keep my CL, and buy into a medium format system with a couple of lenses as an alternative to the SL. Having experimented with the Hb, I was 'taken' by the images. While I will rarely print anything too large, I thought there were discernible differences, even in smaller print sizes. The Hb's shutter lag/blackout issue made me pause, however, before taking the leap. So, I have a 007 for a few days. First impressions: the 007 is noticeably quicker to snap an image. The user interface is much like the SL's so a fairly easy transition. Prices are much more attractive now on the pre-owned market, as well, and supposedly the lens AF issues have been addressed. Not sure where this is all going to end up for me, as I also had a look at the new SL summicron primes at the Leica store and the 'new' sizes were much more to my liking. As Yogi Berra once said: "When you get to the fork in the road, take it". Never was that advice more apropos and that's just what I suspect I will do! Rob Edited May 11, 2018 by ropo54 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csacwp Posted May 11, 2018 Share #2116 Posted May 11, 2018 (edited) Stopped down, would I even notice that much of a difference between the Hasselblad lenses/sensor vs the SL primes? For example, check out these X1d photos: https://photographylife.com/reviews/hasselblad-x1d-50c/7 Correct me if I'm wrong, but the new SL primes seem to produce images that look like these. Edited May 11, 2018 by Csacwp Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 11, 2018 Share #2117 Posted May 11, 2018 (edited) Stopped down, would I even notice that much of a difference between the Hasselblad lenses/sensor vs the SL primes? For example, check out these X1d photos: https://photographylife.com/reviews/hasselblad-x1d-50c/7 Correct me if I'm wrong, but the new SL primes seem to produce images that look like these. There’s another thread specifically regarding “SL primes vs medium format”. Here’s a copy of what I wrote there... For optimal print results, every step in the chain matters....sensor, lens, lighting (shooting and display), editing, print materials (inks, papers, printer) and techniques, print size (and cropping, if any), and more....including the all important user skill and judgment. For me, MF especially offers the potential for better color and tonal gradation (b/w and color), but it’s not apparent in every pic and every print. Printing isn’t plug and play, any more than taking pics. Otherwise we’d each produce the same results with the same gear. But when conditions suit, all else being equal (which it rarely or ever is), then a bigger sensor can help deliver better print IQ. So can using a better lens. And a bigger sensor combined with a better lens has more potential yet. The key word is potential.... there are many variables in the capture to print display workflow. And obviously it means nothing without a worthy pic to start. And I’ll add that if all you want is to view screen shots, much is wasted; an iPhone will even serve well. Jeff Edited May 11, 2018 by Jeff S 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted May 11, 2018 Share #2118 Posted May 11, 2018 Having tried the X1D and now having the S007 to tryout for a couple of days, I think the S is noticeably faster. Maybe I'm deluding myself as I am not hearing that "clackety-clack" x 3! Rob I pulled out my S to compare just now. I think you're right. The 007 is faster. It does seem the second part, the reset, is the main difference. the shutter on the X1D is marginally behind the S007 but the recocking/resetting part is much slower. The S feels ready for the next shot noticeably quicker. I'm not sure if the difference in the delay before the shutter opens is significant enough to make the S decisively better and I don't have the tools to accurately measure the difference. Gordon 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted May 11, 2018 Share #2119 Posted May 11, 2018 Gordon, What do you expect the Summicron 50mm to bring to the table that the Summilux 50mm doesn't? Except perhaps for a modest gain in weight? Thanks, Joris. Hey Joris, Size and weight, mostly. The SL 50 'cron would make a nice walk around that still has some speed. The optics on the 90 are staggering and I have no reason to think the 50 will be different. I love the Summilux but it's not a lens I throw in the bag, just in case.... 16-35, 50 cron, 90 cron and a 90-280 is a pretty potent kit for most anything at 4.5kg in total. I could see myself travelling with that combo and a high res SL2. The thought process is that in the back of my mind I'm thinking about moving out of my M system. That's my influence. The current SL/SL Summilux is too big to throw over a shoulder on a whim, for me but I would with the f2.0. Also I think I'd rather see a resolution bump in the SL2 body compared to the M11 due to the AF accuracy. Gordon 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted May 11, 2018 Share #2120 Posted May 11, 2018 Stopped down, would I even notice that much of a difference between the Hasselblad lenses/sensor vs the SL primes? For example, check out these X1d photos: https://photographylife.com/reviews/hasselblad-x1d-50c/7 Correct me if I'm wrong, but the new SL primes seem to produce images that look like these. At smaller sizes the SL lenses might produce a better looking image. An 8x10/12 in controlled lighting is all points to the SL primes. Faster, optically better, more DOF control and they draw better. No hex bokeh balls. But if you, print big..... lift the shadows hard...... have a high dynamic range scene.... brutalise the raw in Lightroom..... The X1D files will slaughter the SL files In different places each system can out do the other. Choose the one that has the least compromises for your shooting envelope or get both. Gordon 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.b6c027790cd0b46a5877077e4f4f640e.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.