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Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D


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No. Still just a single centre point. You can use the rear screen to tap a point to magnify to 100% to help with manual focussing, or use AF on the central point. This is probably just as it was when you saw it. They say there have been so many FW updates that they save them rather than load them during a demo tour to prevent anything going wrong, so the camera(s) I used were not quite the latest version.    Overall, I found the EVF very nice to use. In fact I genuinely didn't think to spend t

I have been enjoying playing with my new X1D.    A few observations, which should be taken as preliminary for now and are only based on what I find important so may be completly irrelevant to you.    1. Physical ergonomics/build quality: X1D is lovely in hand. Very close to as good as the SL, although for me the SL ergonomics and impression of build quality edge out the X1D.  Narrow win to the SL.  2. Electronic interface: X1D has a lovely, clean menu system. Combined with labelling of the

I get the feeling that a lot of people here talk about the X1D in the same way athat a lot of DSLR users talk about Leicas.   They concentrate on all the things it doesn't do as well as their DSLR does, and conclude that it is therefore a deeply flawed camera. They are mistaken because they've lost sight of the things it does so well.   In the case of the X1D, it delivers in a highly portable package a beautiful sensor that can deliver results that are definitively different from those ava

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Medium format lenses with a comparable angle of view will not be compact and the X1D's responsiveness is TBD.  Faced with these two as my choices: the SL, no question.  Its image quality is more than sufficient for my purposes and the selection of lenses including adapted lenses is far greater meaning it's much more likely I'd be able to use the 2 or 3 lenses I'd want.

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From a practical standpoint, the SL is the more versatile and (for me) much less expensive option—because I already owned most of the lenses I use on the SL when I bought it. It can't be known for sure until the X1D is shipping and I can play with one in hand, but for most of my purposes the advantages of one over the other are going to be small. 

 

I finally had the moment to watch the entire X1D release video and read some of the technical data, however, and I'm impressed with what I see. As I've said elsewhere, I'd buy one with much the same thought in mind as when I use the SL with the 15 or 16mm lens: for ultra-wide square format, much like the Hasselblad SWC. If they make a 22mm-ish lens for it, I could see my way to acquiring a body and just that one lens to net a 37 Mpixel square format ultra-wide camera. That's a nice step up from the SL used the same way with more than double the effective resolution, just what you want for ultra-wide work. But it's a bit pricey for such a specialized use (again, like the SWC was) so I'd really have to want to work in that format, that way, to go for it. 

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I don't see X1D and SL as competitors. SL is much more like a DSLR (and it replaced a Nikon kit for me).

 

Leica S system is a better comparison for me to the X1D. Sensor size, prime lenses, leaf shutters, etc. I debated an S system for some time but ultimately the cost and size of the system held me back. If the S were priced at the X1D level I would have gone that route.

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The X1D body is compact, the lenses are not, they are "midrange" lenses. So the cameras are not really comparable, they belong to different worlds.

 

E.g. SL with 11 frames/s, fast AF, with zooms of extra-wide focal range, high flexibility to use R and M lenses and many more SLR lenses and a great EVF.

X1D with only 2 frames/s, slower AF (in all likelihood), only Hasselblad lenses of "midrange" format and price (X and H), mediocre EVF.

That makes the X1D comparable to a S rather than the SL. So this is for a different clientele with a different budget.

 

The only thing in common for the SL and X1D is the EVF. (and the missing mirror, but can a missing feature be one they have in common ?)

Almost the only thing not in common for the S and the X1D is the finder (EVF vs OVF).

 

Even the 50MP are not extraordinary - I rather use a 5DS if needed. (which plays in the same ballpark as the SL)

Edited by steppenw0lf
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They are very different animals IMHO.  I am not sure why we are even comparing them.

 

If you are a landscape photographer though who does a lot of hiking and you are OK with buying an entirely new lens line-up you should probably consider the X1D.

 

That being said, you might want to wait till the 30mm (24mm eq) becomes available which from is still not that wide...

Edited by JorisV
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....

The only thing in common for the SL and X1D is the EVF. (and the missing mirror, but can a missing feature be one they have in common ?)

Almost the only thing not in common for the S and the X1D is the finder (EVF vs OVF).

 

Even the 50MP are not extraordinary - I rather use a 5DS if needed. (which plays in the same ballpark as the SL)

 

I totally agree on that, and I believe the EVF of the SL is superior to the EVF of the X1D. Don't forget: the EVF is most important when using such a kind of camera in daily routine.

But rather a comparison of the X1D viewfinder  and the Leica S viewfinder is needed.

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I agree they are very different animals. However, the body form factor and overall feature mix between SL and X1D are much closer than between X1D and S system, that's what makes the X1D more likely to be compared to the SL than the S.

 

For my specific interests, the X1D becomes a contender when a 22mm-ish lens comes available, because my interest is ultra-wide square format imagery. I can do it with the SL using lenses I have already, but there are advantages in this extreme niche use with a larger format sensor and more pixels. It's why I still have an SWC as well... 

 

I have exactly zero interest in a Canon 5DS; it's just not something I would ever buy. I've purchased my last DSLR and have barely used it. That's the end of the line for me. 

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I totally agree on that, and I believe the EVF of the SL is superior to the EVF of the X1D. Don't forget: the EVF is most important when using such a kind of camera in daily routine.

But rather a comparison of the X1D viewfinder  and the Leica S viewfinder is needed.

 

I've used some of the finest optical finders known to man including Hasselblad H. I'm now using a toy grade EVF (M240). I don't feel my work has suffered as a jot as a consequence.

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I totally agree on that, and I believe the EVF of the SL is superior to the EVF of the X1D. Don't forget: the EVF is most important when using such a kind of camera in daily routine.

But rather a comparison of the X1D viewfinder  and the Leica S viewfinder is needed.

.....and the earth is flat, no doubt.......

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So let me add something else here. I've invested heavily in the SL (2 bodies, both zooms...), but have my M240 and lenses although I like change to a Q to supplement the SL's, When Hasselblad announced this camera I was interested but the Leica (as least here in LA) has one intangible benefit and that is the excellent Leica Gallery and Store. They have been quite successful in creating a real community around interesting events and a dedicated group of photographers. No other manufacturer, Hasselblad included,  has anything close. Dealers, yes, but a real physical presence and a community no...For some, being part of a community have no value, but I've found it beneficial. 

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Just over 5 years ago, I got into the M system to supplement my aging Canon gear.  M9 then M240, 4  M lenses and 1, 180 APO-R.  That was in the mid-$20K range of investment.  Very versatile kit for the kinds of commercial shooting I do.  As the price of MF started coming down, I grew concerned that for about the same investment, I could have the beginnings of a nice MF kit.  But then I realized a MF system would not have functioned shooting 4 workers 30 feet underground in a 6 x 6 foot tunnel, M240 with an on-camera speedlight triggering an off-camera speedlight held by my assistant.  21mm biogon lens at 800asa @ F2.8 handleld because there was no room for a tripod.  My concern about not moving to a MF system quickly dissipated.  The M9 is gone, and now with my new SL, the versatility surpasses even the M240.  I can use my M, R and Canon lenses.  The image quality and file size of the system is more than adequate for me/my clients, and to be honest the vast majority of client budgets usually can't justify the high cost of investing in a full MF system. Even for some advertising jobs, the SL @ 24mp is more than adequate. The only current frustration with the SL is the lack of true tethering support to LR or C1Pro, but in time that willl come.

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I totally agree on that, and I believe the EVF of the SL is superior to the EVF of the X1D. Don't forget: the EVF is most important when using such a kind of camera in daily routine.

But rather a comparison of the X1D viewfinder  and the Leica S viewfinder is needed.

For EVF, I think one of the most important factor is refreshing rate. SL EVF has the best resolution but not the best refreshing rate. I recently saw a beta testing unit of a mirrorless system with EVFresolution of about the same as Sony A7r ii but refresh rate was over 100 fps. I would pick that EVF over SL as it will give the best of both world, EVF benefit with OVF usability. I don't think X1D said what the refresh rate is. If it is not better than SL, then yes, SL EVF is much better.

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If/when the lens range for the Hasselblad fleshes out I'll be interested. As it stands with the need for the H adaptor and huge lenses I'm better off with the Pentax645Z I have now. I do wish the Pentax had an EVF though.

 

The SL is a different beast for me. Although the files can't come close to the 645Z (or by definition the new H, which uses the same sensor) it ultimately is the system I'll reach for more often. I can use not only the excellent SL lenses but also my Canon T/S lenses, Nikon MF lenses, M lenses R lenses and soon S lenses. It's a very versatile system that provides everything I need in a working system. I would quickly add a second body if Leica would make me a 40+ MP version (for which I keep a Sony currently). I really hope Leica make an 85mm 1.4 for me as well as the upcoming 50mm.

 

Certainly there are some for whom the current two lenses and body will be ideal from the new 'blad. I want/need both wider and longer before I will jump in. But it will not replace my SL kit. Rather it will compliment it. If the lenses don't come I will remain happy with my Pentax.

 

Gordon

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Gordon,

you mentioned the Canon T/S lenses. Do you have any photos made with SL. Many are interested to know how well they are working. Sorry, maybe slightly off-topic, but hopefully not too much.

Thanks.      Stephan

Edited by steppenw0lf
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In 6 months or so, I'm off tramping (catered, so a 45 litre pack), and at this stage I'll be taking the SL and the two zooms - the 24-90 for landscape, portraits and street (bush style) and the 90-280 for birds and tight lanscape.

 

The X1D is compact, great sensor, but the weathersealing and focal length range puts the SL ahead.  At this stage, my credit card is in my wallet ...

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Gordon,

you mentioned the Canon T/S lenses. Do you have any photos made with SL. Many are interested to know how well they are working. Sorry, maybe slightly off-topic, but hopefully not too much.

Thanks.      Stephan

 

I'll post something for tomorrow. It won't be very exciting though.

 

EDIT: Now posted a couple on page 8 of the adaptor thread. Terrible photos but all I've been given to shoot since I got home is rentals with grotty furniture.

 

Gordon

Edited by FlashGordonPhotography
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