Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[meerec]

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i like this sample from the new XCD 21mm

 

 

https://cdn.hasselblad.com/samples/B0001395.jpg

Really? What to like about this image?

Blown highlights and distorted perspectives on the buildings?

I’m sure this lens deserves better samples.

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[helged]

At smaller sizes the SL lenses might produce a better looking image. An 8x10/12 in controlled lighting is all points to the SL primes. Faster, optically better, more DOF control and they draw better. No hex bokeh balls. But if you,

 

print big.....

lift the shadows hard......

have a high dynamic range scene....

brutalise the raw in Lightroom.....

 

The X1D files will slaughter the SL files

 

In different places each system can out do the other. Choose the one that has the least compromises for your shooting envelope or get both.

 

Gordon

 

 

From a novice in the digital MF landscape - and without any experience with X1D (*) - the above points reflect my experience with S006 compared with the SL: The S006-files, at least at low ISOs, have more room for pp before falling apart. And big prints from the S006 have something that is often lacking from FF-sensor systems. The last point is admittedly very subjective, but the colour/tone graduations look smoother/more natural, adding depth to the images. Also friends that are not into photography stop at the S006-images, asking how those are being made. And by whom  ...

 

S006 is old by digital standards, but I very much like the resulting images. The S-lenses are obviously an important part of the end result. Newer MF-sensors/technologies have clearly higher 'scores' than the S006-sensor, X1D included. But until Leica uncovers their S008, I continue to enjoy the S006 with the lovely S-lenses.

 

That being said, my digital working horse is the SL. It's versatility, particularly with it's zooms, is hard to match... But for landscape photography and, importantly, when I am free to spend time on taking photos (so no family, friends, appointment, etc. constraints on the horizon), the S-system is my first pick.  

 

(*) or any other digital MF system, except S006.

[frame-it]

Whatever..

 

 

i just like the overall image..without nitpicking on every detail...just my opinion..which you don't agree with, which is your right and privilege.

 

 

Really? What to like about this image?
Blown highlights and distorted perspectives on the buildings?
I’m sure this lens deserves better samples.

[meerec]

Whatever..

 

 

i just like the overall image..without nitpicking on every detail...just my opinion..which you don't agree with, which is your right and privilege.

I follow your images, like many of them. So I’m sure you know what I mean. Bad choice of a sample image that was.

[frame-it]

i know but it is what it is...im sure people who got a prototype or whatever are still learning how to take advantage of this lens...but its good to see all kinds of samples..not just excellent ones

 

 

 

I follow your images, like many of them. So I’m sure you know what I mean. Bad choice of a sample image that was.

[RoySmith]

Joris:

 

Long-story short: Yes.

 

Initially, I was thinking that the SL system with its zooms was just too bulky and massive to carry about on a whim. This is hobby for me, so my needs may be different than others.  The thought, after trying out the Hb, was to simply keep my CL, and buy into a medium format system with a couple of lenses as an alternative to the SL.

 

Having experimented with the Hb, I was 'taken' by the images. While I will rarely print anything too large, I thought there were discernible differences, even in smaller print sizes. The Hb's shutter lag/blackout issue made me pause, however, before taking the leap. So, I have a 007 for a few days. First impressions: the 007 is noticeably quicker to snap an image. The  user interface is much like the SL's so a fairly easy transition. Prices are much more attractive now on the pre-owned market, as well, and supposedly the lens AF issues have been addressed.

 

Not sure where this is all going to end up  for me, as I also had a look at the new SL summicron primes at the Leica store and the 'new' sizes were much more to my liking.  As Yogi Berra once said: "When you get to the fork in the road, take it".  Never was that advice more apropos  and that's just what I suspect I will do!

 

Rob

 

Rob,

 

In Kevin Raber's Interview with Dr. Andreas Kaufmann,  done sometime last year, Dr. Kaufmann (23:40 min into the video) talks about some new capabilities for the L-Mount to be announced this year. This combined with the rumours of a new S Camera or a SL2 make me think something with higher resolution using the L-Mount is in the works. Leica never does anything quickly, but perhaps there will be something this year that will let you use the wonderful SL glass on a higher resolution Leica body. 

[LocalHero1953]

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Dr Kauffman was, without doubt and with absolute certainty, referring to one of the following:

- a new MF camera

- a new SL2 with more pixels

- a new M-sized, L-mount body

- a new L-mount video camera

- any one of these

- none of these

[ropo54]

Thank you, Roy; yes, that adds to the confusion to 'taking that fork in the road'. 

Regards,

Rob

[Jeff S]

 

Rob,

 

In Kevin Raber's Interview with Dr. Andreas Kaufmann, done sometime last year, Dr. Kaufmann (23:40 min into the video) talks about some new capabilities for the L-Mount to be announced this year. This combined with the rumours of a new S Camera or a SL2 make me think something with higher resolution using the L-Mount is in the works. Leica never does anything quickly, but perhaps there will be something this year that will let you use the wonderful SL glass on a higher resolution Leica body.

He said June, something apparently related to the L mount.

 

And I suspect other product info around Photokina. So maybe an interesting few months ahead.

 

Jeff

[Bill W]

I am ordering my next SL today.....!!!

[Alistairm]

Gordon - I’m interested in where you get to with the M. I’ve rarely touched mine since getting the X1D. However, it’s still a compelling travel camera I think.

 

Currently at Kangaroo Island waiting for the sun to rise. On this trip I brought the three SL zooms, the SL75, the SL and also the CL (to use as a teleconverter on the 90-280) and so far this setup has proved versatile and fun. However, it’s also bulky and heavy!

 

For Europe later this year, which will be more walking around with the family and plenty of dark indoor venues (restaurants, museums etc) I’m thinking the M with its small, fast glass might to the trick, with the X1D as my second body for when I want AF and for more methodical landscape/cityscape work.

 

So many good cameras...

[MarkP]

HI Alistair,

 

I have an extensive M system which, for it's IQ and size, is still my preferred everyday and travel camera.

 

I've just bought an SL. I do a lot of night photography and landscape so I can use my M lenses with the advantages the SL has over the M10 with respect to long exposures, EVF in very low light for framing and data display, spot light metering within the frame of composition, etc. As the sensors are very similar it gives me another M mount camera with a similar looking output.

 

Furthermore, despite the size and weight of the SL, when hiking or in more environmentally unfriendly environments, having a single zoom and not having to change lenses (and testing my wife's patience whilst I do so) is a significant advantage.

 

However, for city travelling I'd still take the very compact and light and relatively discrete M10 with a few of my favourite faster primes.

 

Are you really able to travel with the family and two substantial camera systems? I would have thought that they were mutually exclusive :-)

 

Mark

 

 

ps. Where are you in Sydney?

Edited May 12, 2018 by MarkP

[frame-it]

Would the 36MP S sensor fit inside the SL body ?

 

 

 

He said June, something apparently related to the L mount.

And I suspect other product info around Photokina. So maybe an interesting few months ahead.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

One way to travel with multiple systems is to use a single zoom (or multi-focal length lens) for each. There’s the SL with 24-90 as noted, an M with a MATE OR WATE, and soon the X1D should have the 35-75 (equivalent 28-60 ish FOV). And the X1D & zoom should be more compact than the SL package, and also weather sealed.

 

I’m still on the fence about the SL or X1D (or successor) as a complement to my M10 (and MM). Various trade offs.

 

Jeff

[Jeff S]

Would the 36MP S sensor fit inside the SL body ?

I fully expect an eventual SL2 that will incorporate higher MP (among other things), but not using any current generation sensor.... time marches on. I doubt the format will change. But we might see an S008 with more MP first. Who knows.

 

Jeff

Edited May 12, 2018 by Jeff S

[sillbeers15]

I would be happy to accept a higher resolution sensor in the next SL so long as it remains FF sensor size. An improved processing speed and an update of the AF to Panasonic G9 capability would be very welcome.

 

If the next SL comes with a bigger than FF sensor, I'll exit and sell off all my SL lenses!

I buy the concept of a versitle mirrorless AF fullframe digital camera and I think Leica delivered it well.

I would buy a MF camera if I wanted one to start with which I choose not to do so.

 

Leica can decide to serve customers who are forward looking and buy new lenses or serve a bunch of guys who just complain about SL lenses being bulky & heavy, ask for bigger sensors but choose not to buy Leica after all.

[Alistairm]

Hi Mark

 

I’m in Hunters Hill. The family is used to me lugging camera gear around! The M and a few lenses and X1D and a few lenses easily fit in a backpack with cables, chargers etc for iPads, Kindles and other family gear. Once in the hotel I’ll usually only take what I fancy for the day, normally in a non-camera daypack with room to spare for water, raincoats, hats, glasses etc. That is where M lenses come into their own. And some of them work well on the X1D too!

[lx1713]

I would be happy to accept a higher resolution sensor in the next SL so long as it remains FF sensor size. An improved processing speed and an update of the AF to Panasonic G9 capability would be very welcome.

 

If the next SL comes with a bigger than FF sensor, I'll exit and sell off all my SL lenses!

I buy the concept of a versitle mirrorless AF fullframe digital camera and I think Leica delivered it well.

I would buy a MF camera if I wanted one to start with which I choose not to do so.

 

Leica can decide to serve customers who are forward looking and buy new lenses or serve a bunch of guys who just complain about SL lenses being bulky & heavy, ask for bigger sensors but choose not to buy Leica after all.

 

 

If it does come with a larger sensor it will not have fast lenses. It will not be an SL v 2. And Leica may not want to cannibalise the S so quickly. The SL lenses stopped down, will have a larger image circle so it may cover a larger sensor with acceptable quality.

 

Btw, I'm from Singapore too 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[sillbeers15]

If it does come with a larger sensor it will not have fast lenses. It will not be an SL v 2. And Leica may not want to cannibalise the S so quickly. The SL lenses stopped down, will have a larger image circle so it may cover a larger sensor with acceptable quality.

 

Btw, I'm from Singapore too 

 

 

Great to know you're from Singapore!

 

Larger physical sensors mean increasing focal length of lenses (70mm std lens focal length for MF) and inevitable bigger /bulkier lenses with more focal length is required for same reach on subject for telephoto lenses therefore limiting application versatility.

[lx1713]

Great to know you're from Singapore!

 

Larger physical sensors mean increasing focal length of lenses (70mm std lens focal length for MF) and inevitable bigger /bulkier lenses with more focal length is required for same reach on subject for telephoto lenses therefore limiting application versatility.

 

Yes. It will limit the range of medium format lens focal lengths and apertures but it's pure speculation on my part based on what I know of large format lenses. It may other issues I don't know about. Think apertures will be like f4.0, 5.6, 8 etc

Edited May 12, 2018 by lx1713