k-hawinkler Posted October 22, 2015 Share #141 Posted October 22, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) As a former subscriber (and possibly future one) I can suggest that learning the takeaway point or headline can be enough to encourage a subscription as well as deter one. You may now know that M wides do not perform as well on the SL as on the M240, but you don't know whether the difference is significant or for which lenses it may matter, if any, or under what circumstances. So someone may still subscribe to learn those details. Valid points. As the SL finds its way into the hands of actual users then some of their findings will find their way to this thread. http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1392833 Based on the information already collected there with Sony sensors it should be easy to predict which M lenses are particularly problematic and which will excel on the SL. For Jono comparing with Sony A7 mark 2 isn't quite the same as comparing with the newer and better A7r2 and its BSI sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 Hi k-hawinkler, Take a look here Leica SL (Typ 601) - Mirrorless System Camera Without Compromise. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
digitalfx Posted October 22, 2015 Share #142 Posted October 22, 2015 Here's what Jono says: For LCT, Jono also says it's easy to press the bottom left button for focus magnification with your thumb while the camera is at eye level. He doesn't say which thumb ... if the selection requires two hands, I would give Leica an F...this makes no sense at all. My camera will go right back to the dealer for a refund if this isn't addressed in the shipping firmware. This is totally unacceptable for a "professional" camera, and as we know waiting for FW update from Leica is not a reasonable expectation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 22, 2015 Share #143 Posted October 22, 2015 Let's not dig any holes til we have more information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 22, 2015 Share #144 Posted October 22, 2015 The inferior performance with M wides may be something that is improved with firmware upgrades in the future. I presume the SL is reading the lens codes. I tried an experiment on my M240, mounting the 18mm SEM and setting the lens detection to manual 90mm to see if it made any difference. It made a very big difference with bad vignetting and the corner colours way off. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted October 22, 2015 Share #145 Posted October 22, 2015 The Maestro processor is not made by Leica. If I recall correctly it is made by Panasonic for Leica (might have been Fuji). Fujitsu, if I remember well. The funny thing is many processors in the industry, with fancy names (Jupiter VI, SuperIris IV, HammerPixel III) are in fact... Fujitsu processors. This company provide a catalogue of processors with different specifications for anyone in the industry. The Maestro is a mere rebranding, like most other processors in digital cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 22, 2015 Share #146 Posted October 22, 2015 Fujitsu, if I remember well. The funny thing is many processors in the industry, with fancy names (Jupiter VI, SuperIris IV, HammerPixel III) are in fact... Fujitsu processors. This company provide a catalogue of processors with different specifications for anyone in the industry. The Maestro is a mere rebranding, like most other processors in digital cameras. Fujitsu are one of the principle makers of industrial and process processors for many years. If you go into something like an oil refinery or large industrial concern, it is probable that the majority of the control boxes will be either Siemens-Sirius or Fujitsu-ITC. Fujitsu also have a specialist division for graphic processing (I don't think Siemens do, who might be seen as the logical partner for Leica), so Fujitsu would be the logical partner for when you need an advanced custom branded single chip image processor. Many years ago, I used to insure Fujitsu-ITC's German/European product liability coverage. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted October 22, 2015 Share #147 Posted October 22, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Worse than all the usual negativity from the armchair Leica board director wannabes who have never used the cameras / lenses? I will never forget al the balderdash posted by the naysayers following the release of the X-Vario. If they'd paid more attention to Jono's and others' reviews and maybe visited a dealer to try the camera before embarking on their 'let's trash the X Vario' campaign it would have been more to their credit. dunk Dunk, I don't think anyone has suggested that the SL will be anything other than a very fine camera. What many have done is explain why it doesn't appeal to them, personally. That seems to me a valid part of the exchange of thoughts that you should not only expect but value when an important new product is announced. Rejecting opinions as naysaying and the like is just as bad as rejecting positive responses as fanboy drivel. Neither is helpful or appropriate, and both are rude. As for the SL specifically, the question of size is clearly always going to be a factor for a number of Leica users who have chosen their cameras precisely because they want something smaller than a DSLR. Expressing their disappointment that a potentially exciting new camera has ruled itself out for them before They've even seen it is not negativity is it? I read it as honest reaction, which doesn't always have to be positive to be fair or respectable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted October 22, 2015 Share #148 Posted October 22, 2015 UK list price for the SL: £5050 (M list price £4750). Damn you, Leica: if I could be seduced into an M at that price, there's a risk I could be seduced into the SL Time to keep my head down and stop looking at the internet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted October 22, 2015 Share #149 Posted October 22, 2015 Dunk, I don't think anyone has suggested that the SL will be anything other than a very fine camera. What many have done is explain why it doesn't appeal to them, personally. That seems to me a valid part of the exchange of thoughts that you should not only expect but value when an important new product is announced. Rejecting opinions as naysaying and the like is just as bad as rejecting positive responses as fanboy drivel. Neither is helpful or appropriate, and both are rude. As for the SL specifically, the question of size is clearly always going to be a factor for a number of Leica users who have chosen their cameras precisely because they want something smaller than a DSLR. Expressing their disappointment that a potentially exciting new camera has ruled itself out for them before They've even seen it is not negativity is it? I read it as honest reaction, which doesn't always have to be positive to be fair or respectable. Broadly I agree with you, Peter. OTOH, having read a lot of first reactions and opinions both here and GetDPI, there are definitely a fair number of people who have come out with an initial "WTF, it's plug-ugly and a disaster", to be followed, as reviews, specs and better images have appeared, by "this looks like an excellent camera, though not for me" - or, in one case "I might get one". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 22, 2015 Share #150 Posted October 22, 2015 I am going on a three week trip to Myanmar next spring and have decided to put an SL601 and kit lens on order for early next year with Ffordes. This will be a good test for it to see if I find it too heavy and if I do, I will sell it on my return. It means I can get away with a single Leica lens and I will also take my Olympus EP-5 with the pancake 14-42 Mk3 and 75-300 for situations when a more expensive camera would be at risk (small boats etc) or I want less weight. The only other lens I might possible take would be the 18mm SEM, dependant on its performance on the SL. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted October 22, 2015 Share #151 Posted October 22, 2015 I am going on a three week trip to Myanmar next spring and have decided to put an SL601 and kit lens on order for early next year with Ffordes. This will be a good test for it to see if I find it too heavy and if I do, I will sell it on my return. It means I can get away with a single Leica lens and I will also take my Olympus EP-5 with the pancake 14-42 Mk3 and 75-300 for situations when a more expensive camera would be at risk (small boats etc) or I want less weight. The only other lens I might possible take would be the 18mm SEM, dependant on its performance on the SL. Wilson Good luck. I hope you enjoy the experience. About four years ago I decided to get rid of my DSLRs altogether because they were making photography a chore. I wanted my camera to help me record the things I was experiencing, rather than unduly influencing the type of experience I was having. Since then I have occasionally thought a good long AF lens would be handy, but not often enough to persuade me to buy a DSLR so I could use one. I make do with an old R lens which is more than adequate on my M. So despite some of the wonderful features of the SL, I do wonder what it might offer me that a good DSLR couldn't have done for the last few years. This leads me to suspect that any stirrings of SLust I may feel deep inside are really no more than that: a little yearning for a tantalising new playmate rather than any need for long term companionship. Nothing wrong with that you may say. Or on the other hand, you may not... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 22, 2015 Share #152 Posted October 22, 2015 Anyway, the SL system seems to be a little bit too expensive, and the roadmap for new lenses too slow (the first prime, 50mm Summilux, at the end of 2016!). You have to sell this now, to wealthy aficionados for the moment. I didn't notice that the Lux 50 is so far... well, during the heated pre announcement thread ("New M, this fall..") I remember to have written something like "I bet they will wait some time to play hard the prestige primes game...." ... good for keeping M platform in its own perspective... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted October 22, 2015 Share #153 Posted October 22, 2015 The size of the SL is correct. It has to be large because you will use large lenses with it. The Sony 7 series doesn't make sense, because the bodies are very small and the lenses are large (I mean the zooms, teles, etc.). So the system is flawed for professional use. They can develop a new body, similar to the SL, of course. But Leica is not wrong with SL parameters. The 90-280 lens would look totally unbalanced with a Sony 7 camera. It is just an example. The SL saves space where it is possible and reasonable to do it. It is a thinner body, for instance. But it provides weight and volume where it is required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted October 22, 2015 Share #154 Posted October 22, 2015 The initial shock comes from assumed ideas like: "what, mirrorless is not about small size?". The answer is... it depends. That is true for the Leica T. This is a travel camera, a domestic camera, a leisure camera... it has to be a joy to use and you have to carry it with you everywhere. For it, the size is very important, body and lenses. The SL seems to be a concept for professionals or aficionados with other requirements in mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted October 22, 2015 Share #155 Posted October 22, 2015 I would like to have one SL? Yes! But I am not te user for this system because I don't need or like large lenses, and I want to have my camera with me all the time. So I am the typical user of a M or T system, not a SL or S system (or R system years ago). No problem with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencoyote Posted October 22, 2015 Share #156 Posted October 22, 2015 That's simply the math about FF surface vs. APS-C surface : not a design choice, simply must be like this when crop the image. I redid my math and realized that if Leica quickly follows the 24MP SL 601 with a SLx at around 36 or 40MP trading video capability and maximum frame rate for resolution then you have the T resolution and the T lenses fill in some holes in the lens roadmap. i think Sony and to a lesser extent both Canon and Nikon have proven that there is room for different resolutions of sensors being sold in parallel for use by different users who have different needs or by users to be used in different situations. i expect a higher resolution SLx or whatever they call a 602 or 611 fairly soon. Same body style, same controls, same processor, different resolution sensor. I bet the design department is already working on it. This one is targeted at the growing videography market and goes along with the new Leica Cine lenses. It also can work for those people who can use one of the high frame rate high sensitivity low resolution Canon or Nikon models. Do you want to bet that we see a whole bunch of Leica Blog stories about the SL being used to make movies and video over the next few months? After that is established we'll see a more stills oriented higher resolution SL camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 22, 2015 Share #157 Posted October 22, 2015 Some newbies among us have used successively small SLRs in the past, and this with long lenses as well. Remember the Olympus OM1? I have not owned one myself but my Leica R4s is not much bulkier and worked fine with my Apo-Telyt 280/4. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/251840-leica-sl-typ-601-mirrorless-system-camera-without-compromise/?do=findComment&comment=2910608'>More sharing options...
Peter H Posted October 22, 2015 Share #158 Posted October 22, 2015 To my mind the Olympus OM series set a standard that no one has yet matched in the digital age. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted October 22, 2015 Share #159 Posted October 22, 2015 LCT, you are absolutely right. But, remember, the OM system was manual focus, and the lenses where smaller. AF lenses ad a lot of size to a basic design. Any manual focus lens has a ratio of glass and mechanics of 80/20. AF lenses are more like 50/50. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted October 22, 2015 Share #160 Posted October 22, 2015 Cine lenses are designed for a format like Super35... and it is very similar to APS-C. It does not make much sense to develop a high resolution SL camera thinking on cinematographers. It would make much more sense a video-oriented T camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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