You don't lose money on M Lenses, right?

[Per P.]

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Warning: This post can be seen as a blatant plug for my sales adverts! That is not my intention though, I am genuinely curious and looking for your viewpoints.

 

Over the last year or so I have made several attempts to sell my Elmarit Asph 21mm and 24mm lenses. Not because they are no good, but because I just don't use them.

 

Both were bought second hand and I expect to lose money on them, simply because I live in Switzerland. One was bought at a time when the Euro exchange rate was a lot higher than today, the other was bought at probably too high a price directly from Leica Switzerland.

 

The thing that puzzles me: I don't find any buyers for them. And I wonder why. Have I got an unrealistic idea of the value? Are the lenses seen as outdated because of the Super Elmars? Is it my descriptions?

 

Your views are very welcomed! These lenses deserve to be used

[pgk]

Like virtually anything else, lenses wax and wane in popularity and right now I'd guess that both yours are being less sought after than they were. Its quite interesting to watch both what used M lenses are available and their prices, and then to surmise what is the 'flavour of the month' - this is driven partly at least, I suspect, by internet chat about the current 'greatest lens' on forums such as this.

 

Dare I say that currently the 21 and 24 asph lenses don't seem to be being discussed that much at the moment so interest, and hence demand, is lower than when they were being enthused over (which both have been).

 

I'm sure that this will change so if you can hold on, or even drive up discussion of them by starting threads about them yourself, then this might help (I'm being rather cynical here I'm afraid, but the recent M9 sensor debate seemed to be a classic example of this type of behaviour to me). FWIW they are both superb lenses and deserve to sell well, but if demand is lower then you'll have to drop price accordingly or be prepared to wait for sales.

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[wda]

Per, there are quite a few variables in your thesis. I have the 21mm and rate it as one of my very best performers. But wide-angle lenses in the 21-24mm and wider are amongst the most challenging lenses to use. The M-240 with live-view eases the challenge; but choosing viewpoints and composing pictures is more difficult than with more normal focal length lenses.

 

Another factor is fashion. Looking back over time, the 21mm lens was much sought after for architectural work and press situations. Now people stitch together several frames in their smart phones and produce panoramas which reduce the dependence on high value primes. Press photographers, where they exist, are more likely to be capturing video than super-wide scenes.

 

Pricing is a tricky business. Wherever you live, supply and demand does influence sale prices. Unless desperate to sell, I would hesitate to sell at a low price just because that is the going rate. Why not place the lens with a trusted Leica dealer to sell on commission? You might do better that way.

[rramesh]

I suspect that part of the problem was this:

 

a) Short supply of many Leica lenses a couple years back

Buyers of micro 4/3 and other ILC cameras desiring fast lenses

 

Today Leica lenses are in ample supply and companies like Voigtlander producing micro 4/3 lenses like their new 0.95 range (42.5, 21, 10.5). So prices are depressed.

[lct]

I don't find any buyers for them. And I wonder why. Have I got an unrealistic idea of the value?

Hard to answer w/o knowing the serial number of your lenses, prices you're asking for them and where you're trying to sell them.

[Guest volker_m]

The thing that puzzles me: I don't find any buyers for them. And I wonder why. Have I got an unrealistic idea of the value?

 

Your price looks higher than it really is, because you include the rather expensive finders. To attract more buyers, it might be better so sell lens and finder separately. This will results in prices looking more competitive, and from the comments here, it seems that quite a few people want to avoid the external finder anyway.

 

Good luck for your sale!

[james.liam]

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The challenges of using these wides on M bodies and the documented incompatibility of these lenses on Sony EF mounts are clearly factors. As well as the extraordinary nature of the SEMs that followed. But other factors should be considered here.

 

Are you restricting yourself to selling in Switzerland, a pretty tiny market? If not, are there hefty tariffs to the buyer in the EU? Aside from the 'flavor of the month' phenomenon alluded to above, you might contemplate a more radical alternative if you are eager to part with them right now.

 

Here in the US, you can sell it outright but at a steeper discount to the likes of volume retailers such as B&H or Adorama. They sell worldwide and items like yours are always appealing. One upside to this is that in New York, when an item is sold to them and the credit applied to another purchase, tax (about 8.75%) is paid only on the difference--if there is any. An added perk to a holiday in New York City.

 

Alternatively, there are Leica authorized sellers with a large Web presence (like Popflash Photo in Los Angeles) that will list your gear on consignment and while you might not get the price you anticipated selling on your own, is more likely to sell in time because of the larger pool of potential buyers. And you will do a bit better than sellng outright to the aforementioned NYC retailers. The economy in the US has fared somewhat better than continental Europe and so you might consider using this to your advantage.

Edited January 8, 2015 by james.liam

[boliston]

just had a quick look at ebay sold listings and about £1400 for a 21mm elmarit asph or £1200 for a 24mm elmarit asph - i recently got a 28mm elmarit asph for about £800 so my guess is about 50 to 60% of the new price would seem a good guide

[Per P.]

Thank you all, there are some really good points here. Fashion is what fashion is. For now, I will add the serial number to listings, give an option to selling excl. the viewfinders to those who do not need it, and also make it clear that I can ship world wide.

 

Should the lenses still not sell then it will be eBay next, with a big thank you to Boliston for a suggested guide price!

[NightSun]

Hi Per,

 

As for your advertisements, it might also help if you give a statement there (in case) you are willing to post the lenses from France/Germany. Otherwise it will be hard to attract EU buyers, who then have to pay customs in addition - unless you stipulate a much lower price than what you could realistically expect.

 

In any case, Elmarit 24 ASPH is a wonderful lens, though me too I have to admit that I'm not using it so that often.

[bobbywise]

I recently purchased the 35 mm Summilux-M APSH FLE from someone in Switzerland. They warned me I may get hit with import duty as I am in France (because a buyer from Germany did). I told them I was willing to take the risk. I didn't have to pay import duty when it arrived. I guess it's luck of the draw for import duty!

[IWC Doppel]

Import duty can be expected this reduces the market noticeably

[MarkP]

It seems to me that with increased supply of new lenses, and the rush following the release of the M240, prices have settled for all but the most exotic/rare lenses (1.4/75 Summilux, 2.8-4.5/28-90 Vario-Elmar-R, 2.8/180 APO-Elmarit, etc) .

 

I agree that you should supply the serial numbers with the sale information. Leica lenses are fairly specialised items, most sellers and buyers quite knowledgeable, and most will want to know the serial number (sn) and age of the lens. So I've bought many lenses second hand and I am always suspicious of advertisements which don't list the sn, or display a large number of photos but deliberately avoid showing the sn.

 

I recently bought a second hand recently produced 3.8/24 Elmar-M ASPH. fabulous lens with modern rendering but I wonder whether should have bought the 2.8/24 Elmarit-M ASPH which probably has a bit more character. Oh well, the grass is always greener....

Edited January 8, 2015 by MarkP

[mirekti]

I recently bought a second hand recently produced 3.8/24 Elmar-M ASPH. fabulous lens with modern rendering but I wonder whether should have bought the 2.8/24 Elmarit-M ASPH which probably has a bit more character. Oh well, the grass is always greener....

 

...same here, but no regrets at all. It's small, compact and delivers more than expected. It isn't as used as 35mm and 75mm lenses, but I am glad I own it. It brings refreshing perspective to my photography, and gives that certain look with it's wide angel.

That's the wides lens I own as it can still be used without the external viewfinder.

[NB23]

Yawn... Another internet dude that fell for internet myths.

 

Really, you believed that your lenses would go up up up? Who told you that?

 

Supply and demand is an old proven concept.

[NB23]

Guys, soon enough we'll see the next breakthrough in photography and it will involve holograms.

By then, all this leica hardware will be ZERO, even the rarest pieces.

 

I use my gear to produce prints so indont care if it all goes down to Zero dollars. My prints will live up the test of time. But i sympathize with all the fondlers out there. They'll be left with zero pictures and worthless equipment. Their biggest loss? Not the momey but rather All the lost energy in fondling and time spent on forums talkin about it. Really!

[NB23]

Guys, soon enough we'll see the next breakthrough in photography and it will involve holograms.

By then, all this leica hardware will be worth ZERO, even the rarest pieces.

 

I use my gear to produce prints so i dont care if it all goes down to Zero dollars. My prints will live up the test of time and they will testify that my equipment was used, used and used! But i sympathize with all the fondlers out there. They'll be left with very few meaningful files (probably unreadable by then) and worthless equipment. Their biggest loss? Not even the money but rather all the lost energy in fondling and time spent on forums talkin about it. Really!

 

Guys, the next definitive thing are holograms. Lux, cron, marit will all become as valuable as our grandma's sewing machines.

Edited January 9, 2015 by NB23

[Herr Barnack]

...Guys, the next definitive thing are holograms. Lux, cron, marit will all become as valuable as our grandma's sewing machines.

Maybe so. But like our grandma's sewing machines, M cameras and lenses will still get the job done in a dependable manner, they will produce high quality results in the hands of a skilled user and will always be nice to have around.

 

Lenses are lenses; they are not stocks, bonds or mutual funds. Lenses make photographs, not profit. When I have spent money on M lenses, I have never even once thought of gaining money or losing money. I buy lenses solely for the love of the game.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Carlos Danger

[jaques]

Guys, soon enough we'll see the next breakthrough in photography and it will involve holograms.

By then, all this leica hardware will be worth ZERO, even the rarest pieces.

 

I use my gear to produce prints so i dont care if it all goes down to Zero dollars. My prints will live up the test of time and they will testify that my equipment was used, used and used! But i sympathize with all the fondlers out there. They'll be left with very few meaningful files (probably unreadable by then) and worthless equipment. Their biggest loss? Not even the money but rather all the lost energy in fondling and time spent on forums talkin about it. Really!

 

Guys, the next definitive thing are holograms. Lux, cron, marit will all become as valuable as our grandma's sewing machines.

 

what rubbish. You think the person who paid 335,000 pounds for M3 #700000 did so because they planned to take photos with it? Or because they thought it was state of the art? pff.

 

and as to the OP's question: I don't lose money on M lenses... if you paid too much initially then you might.

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[adan]

Just to check, Per. Are your lenses 6-bit-coded?

 

A lack of coding can reduce the perceived value, for digital-M use. Not just for the additional expense anticipated, but because of the time the lenses will be away from home for the servicing.

 

While I have my complete kit now, in assembling and adding to it over the past 5 years I have simply ignored any lenses offered that did not have the coding. Just not worth the hassle when there were other lenses available ready for immediate digital use.