luigi bertolotti Posted August 23, 2014 Share #141 Posted August 23, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Why so if i may ask? We will never get these (inferior to me) optical framelines any more i'm afraid. The next move should be 100% electric framelines i suspect buy i may be wrong. I agree... After months of usage i find the M240 framelines one of its major improvements over the classic VF/RF... i miss very marginally the preselection feature, but they have done well to add it to the M-P . 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 23, 2014 Posted August 23, 2014 Hi luigi bertolotti, Take a look here The New LEICA M-P: Discreet, Faster, Harder. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Peter H Posted August 23, 2014 Share #142 Posted August 23, 2014 When I trade my M in for an M-P I'll ask Leica if they can give me something to put over the big screw on the front. I thought maybe a nice red dot would look good there. I'll let you know how I get on. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J12 Posted August 23, 2014 Share #143 Posted August 23, 2014 Well color me disappointed, but I can’t say it wasn’t expected. A very predictable update. Save for the larger buffer. Almost textbook. I have been soldiering on with the M9 I bought new in 2010. As most people who own one know, it can produce great files at base ISO, but for a long time I’ve been wanting a second digital camera to cover the areas where the M9 falls short. Mainly for better quality image files at higher ISO, and one that also has the ability to record video. While stills is my mainstay, the ability to record short video clips and not carry an additional camera body / system is something I’d find very useful, and a crossover feature that's become more relevant in this digital age. When it was first announced, on paper the M240 looked like the answer. But after carefully evaluating the camera's performance and seeing the all shortcomings (outdated EVF and high ISO banding etc..) the M240 did not seem worth the cost of purchase as an upgrade / addition to the M9. A much smaller point but one that’s all the more important when making what some might term “an emotional purchase” like a Leica, but I’ve never liked the unbalanced look of the M240. The electronic frame lines might be better, but the camera just looks unbalanced with the removal of the frame line window. The massive red dot was hideous and the goofy giant screw is almost worse. I understand they made them larger to hep fill the empty space, but it’s just a half baked solution that destroys the balance of the M-series design. As much as I have been putting it off and hate to do it, I think I might just give in and buy a Sony A7s to pair with my M9. Yes it’s no product design masterpiece, but functionality wise it checks all the right boxes, doesn’t cost an extortionate amount, and the lenses Sony and Zeiss are rolling out look more than good enough for my needs. The money I save, I’ll put towards a real film MP. Something I'm grateful Leica still produce. I’ll check back if Leica actually manage to produce a digital camera that’s technologically on par with the rest of the digital market. Or heaven forbid, one that’s ahead of the curve. I know it's difficult for a small company to achieve that, but digital is a different game and all about the gains offered by technological innovation. With an expensive camera like a digital Leica, you should be paying for the performance advantage as much as you are anything else. Prestige image just doesn't cut it if there's no substance to back it up. Harsh criticism, but if they want me to spend close to $8,000 on another digital camera they better provide some real incentive. I'll admit I knew the announcement of this camera wouldn't be the answer I was looking for, but one can still hope! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikiphoto Posted August 23, 2014 Share #144 Posted August 23, 2014 I guess some of the changes made to the M-P will not allow a Leica service upgrade from an M? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted August 23, 2014 Share #145 Posted August 23, 2014 …. I’ll check back if Leica actually manage to produce a digital camera that’s technologically on par with the rest of the digital market. Or heaven forbid, one that’s ahead of the curve. ... I hope you'll let us know if you find a digital rangefinder camera that's technologically on a par with Leica? If not then I wish you enjoyment and satisfaction with your dSLR, mirrorless, compact, or whatever else you choose. Pete. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted August 23, 2014 Share #146 Posted August 23, 2014 Received an unsolicited email today from a Leica dealer. My M240 + £2,000 (or an M9 +£3,500 etc.) and the new M-P can be mine. Don't know if this a Leica sponsored promotion or just one of it's distributors being enterprising, but whatever it is, given my M is only 5 months old and I remain unexcited by the new model I don't think I'll bother. I could, however, get more exercised if an updated MM appeared perchance out of the ether. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted August 23, 2014 Share #147 Posted August 23, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Received an unsolicited email today from a Leica dealer. My M240 + £2,000 (or an M9 +£3,500 etc.) and the new M-P can be mine. Don't know if this a Leica sponsored promotion or just one of it's distributors being enterprising, but whatever it is, given my M is only 5 months old and I remain unexcited by the new model I don't think I'll bother. Either the M240 is devaluing fast or the M-P is overpriced ...or both... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted August 23, 2014 Share #148 Posted August 23, 2014 With respect to the posts that are disappointed with the M-P I think that it's great that Leica has offered another variant if someone wants to buy it. A few days ago there was no way to buy a M240 with a sapphire screen, without a red logo, with a frame selection lever, and with extra buffer capacity but now there is. M240's continue to work just as they did and if you're not convinced by the M-P then you don't have to buy it. The disappointment with the M-P surprises me. Pete. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 23, 2014 Share #149 Posted August 23, 2014 I still doubt that Leica really had the idea that this one was for the upgrade market. They are more looking to generate some extra sales for the last year of the camera, mostly from new buyers who like getting the "top of the line " model. As such I would say all grumbles are rather moot. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted August 23, 2014 Share #150 Posted August 23, 2014 Received an unsolicited email today from a Leica dealer. My M240 + £2,000 (or an M9 +£3,500 etc.) and the new M-P can be mine. Don't know if this a Leica sponsored promotion or just one of it's distributors being enterprising, but whatever it is, given my M is only 5 months old and I remain unexcited by the new model I don't think I'll bother. If this is Leica sponsored I'll bet there's a few M9 owners having a close look. A new M-P for less than ME list price sounds alright! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted August 23, 2014 Share #151 Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) Either the M240 is devaluing fast or the M-P is overpriced...or both... Surely they have thought a lot on where setting the price of the M-P : should be priced au pair with the M, recent buyers had grumbled, and the M would become definitely obsolete (which is not... As for me, should I buy now, maybe I'd end still on a M). Imho, the price they have decided takes in consideration also the NEXT camera... They want to verify how the market does accept this increased price, to decide how to position the price of the "new M" to be introduced in 1 year or so from now. Edited August 23, 2014 by luigi bertolotti 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicolaz Posted August 23, 2014 Share #152 Posted August 23, 2014 I agree with J12 when he says "The electronic frame lines might be better, but the camera just looks unbalanced with the removal of the frame line window. ".. Based on what I have red almost all of us want the same thing: "we want an M240 in the body of a MM" .. From technology standpoint (I know I'm the only one!) I'd like the RF experience but I'd like to have the possibility to put on my M240 T/S lenses too. I wouldn't care how slow would be the AF.. I know I know, I'm not the real 100% old school guy but this would get the M into a brand new world (and if you don't want it, well, it's like the EVF, you can avoid to buy it!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 23, 2014 Share #153 Posted August 23, 2014 I still doubt that Leica really had the idea that this one was for the upgrade market. They are more looking to generate some extra sales for the last year of the camera, mostly from new buyers who like getting the "top of the line " model. As such I would say all grumbles are rather moot. If current M owners like the 'top of the line' features (your words), but are cost prohibitive, then that's exactly why some may grumble. You may have the right understanding of Leica's strategy, but not necessarily the right take on customer reaction. I bet many folks, despite the naysayers here, would have spent more for the upgrades other than the buffer, if priced according to 'precedent'. They always have….M8 to (almost) M8.2, M9 to M9-P, etc. Even when many say the cost is nuts, or that they're not interested….sales follow. On the other hand, maybe the big screw was not ironic, but rather Leica's attempt to moderate the appeal of this iteration. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naper Posted August 23, 2014 Share #154 Posted August 23, 2014 The red dot looks better than the screw head. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted August 23, 2014 Share #155 Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) A new M-P for less than ME list price sounds alright! Not sure about your logic here, Steve. The quoted P/X offer (from Harrison's – I also received the email) is for your "good condition" M9 plus £3500. In other words, you are being given £2,150 (a lowish to fair second hand price, albeit without any of the hassle in finding a buyer) for your M9. You are still effectively paying £5,650, rather more than the list price of the M-E. Edited August 23, 2014 by wattsy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted August 23, 2014 Share #156 Posted August 23, 2014 ................................ Based on what I have red almost all of us want the same thing: "we want an M240 in the body of a MM" .. ........................................ That really would be a matter of putting cosmetics ahead of function (since the M body is so much better than the M9 body regardless of how nice the MM looks), and I certainly wouldn't like to see that happening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted August 23, 2014 Share #157 Posted August 23, 2014 Imho, the price they have decided takes in consideration also the NEXT camera... They want to verify how the market does accept this increased price, to decide how to position the price of the "new M" to be introduced in 1 year or so from now. Yes, that might well be the case. I remember when the M8.2 was released it was priced (in the UK) at £3,950, a full £1000 more than the RRP of the M8 (which was available at a "street" price of around £2,500 at that point). That helped set a marker for the release of the M9 only a year later at £4,950 or thereabouts. Maybe Leica have looked at how well the Monochrom has been selling at £6k+ and wondered whether they have been underpricing the M240? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted August 23, 2014 Share #158 Posted August 23, 2014 My bet is that the only M240 owners who will trade their camera for this one will be those for whom the larger buffer is of prime importance. Do you honestly believe that? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicolaz Posted August 23, 2014 Share #159 Posted August 23, 2014 That really would be a matter of putting cosmetics ahead of function (since the M body is so much better than the M9 body regardless of how nice the MM looks), and I certainly wouldn't like to see that happening. I'm glad I put almost! we could have both of them! I had the M9 and now the M240.. I like the "thumb rest" but I would pay in order to have the M9 dial back. Changing EV on M240 doesn't feel as natural as on the M9 (in fact I don't use it now) That said, Leica it's always a matter of cosmetics (at least to me) otherwise the M9-P and M-P wouldn't exist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted August 23, 2014 Share #160 Posted August 23, 2014 It does' date=' but the black dot is returned intact as well. Leica only leases the logo, and are not allowed to apply a dot in any colour but red.[/quote'] That was claimed by Leica but is not true as you can see with there latest accessories. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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