leica where do you go to?

[Rick]

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The majority of "pros" have not used Leicas since the 60s. Wedding pros, fashion pros, product pros, portrait pros...almost none ever used 35mm, period. It was almost exclusively medium and large format. Photojournalists were the only "pros" who ever used Leicas in any number, and with the advent of the Nikon F, most of them jumped ship or at least relegated the Leica to a minor percentage of their work. So frankly I haven't cared what "pros" used since I began being interested in photography, which is around 45 years ago. I really could give a rat's butt what "pros" are shooting with, or what "pros" want in the next Leica. If Leica makes their cameras for amateurs, that's fine with me.

 

That said I'm not averse to the next M camera having AF. But I've used the latest "pro" AF bodies and they still don't always know what I want them to focus on, and manual selection of the focus point is way slower than just focusing manually by eye. Until there is an AF system whereby I can stare at the exact point I want in focus and the camera focuses on it instantly, AF will not replace MF for me.

 

Hey, that was really well put from a member that has a history of being extremely critical with Leica. I agree and resonate with all of what you wrote. And the part about AF where you leave it kind of vague because, well, I don't think any of us know how AF would work on a classic RF camera. We like the idea, but if it isn't right then, it is just going to be like Movie mode... nice little feature, but please Leica don't waste time on it.

 

I'm guessing that most M users have come to the conclusion that Movie mode and AF isn't where we want the M to break new ground. I've decided that I'd rather have a better classic M camera (and lenses) than, a compromised M that can AF, have Movie mode, and post to hash-tag #blaw-blaw-blaw.

 

Just leave my camera alone! It is only supposed to be camera for crying out loud.

 

Click... f-stop/shutter/focus/ISO,

 

Rick

Edited July 14, 2014 by RickLeica

[Echo63]

 

Just leave my camera alone! It is only supposed to be camera for crying out loud.

 

Click... f-stop/shutter/focus/ISO,

 

Rick

I agree entirely - the M is pure simplicity, and should stay that way. Or at least have the ability to turn off the fancy extras (like LV and video in the newest FW)

 

I am a photojournalist, most of the time i shoot with a pair of 1DX,

They are great, a million fps, big heavy ergonomic build, lightning fast AF, and a selection of lenses from 14mm to over 600mm

The leica (i have an M240) is the complete opposite - small, quiet, simple, and image quality i feel is better than the 1DX/L lenses

Its not a camera for the majority, its a camera for those thinking photographers, quiet, slow and reasoned - the addition of AF and a bunch of other features will complicate it, and i feel leica will lose sales, as they stray from their traditionl "M" roots

 

If you want a compact AF "rangefinder style" camera, buy a fuji or sony - if you want an AF "status symbol" - there is always the hasselblad lunar/stellar

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[zlatkob]

All in all the brand still does'nt have a camera that can easily handle dynamic situations and that's exactly the reason why the majority of pro's are not using Leica anymore..

 

A very big reason is cost — Leica costs quite a lot compared to Canon or Nikon. A lesser (but still important) reason is repair time. For some photographers I suspect another reason is the availability and usability of telephoto lenses, like a 135/2 or 70-200/2.8. And for some, not having dual cards may be an issue.

[srv333]

Leica is Leica because they want to be.

if Leica is not the system that works for you, I think there are plenty of other camera manufactures out there that will fit your needs...

Just my two cents.

[rramesh]

If Leica is to survive as a company and as a brand, they will follow the money.

 

If that were to be outside their traditional base, then that is where they will play. We are already seeing that their targeting the lifestyle market, the prosumer market, etc. with their new lines, new capability, branded stores and their move to cloud store etc.

 

I am very happy to have with me a great camera, great lenses, quality support and an association with a cult brand that is timeless. What more can I ask for.

[CaptZoom]

For whatever it's worth, I have the position now precisely because I use an M9 and not Canon/Nikon. As an independently operating photographer (the usual-weddings, concerts, etc) I covered an event for my current employer who was taken aback by the image quality (rather the quality of the images-all the intangible stuff that makes the Leica look) and asked me if I could do the same for his products. I soon signed on to do the company catalog and now just over two years, I'm head of creative and marketing (with three teams- photography, design, and video in creative working under me). I chose to work with Leica's M system because it's the only system that makes sense to me. We all have our limitations, and Leica's system works well with mine. So I'm thankful Leica's going in the direction they are. That being said, I have a couple of things on my wish list- robust weather sealing, easy/single hand access to ISO. And if Leica's gonna have video as an option, I hope they actually work at it and make it more useable (better codecs, more choice of frame and data rates, etc).

 

Finally, the pro market. Leica's identified the pro market as those photographers who use medium format, and from what I've read they're aggressively going after that market and have earned some serious ground there with the S system.

[jlindstrom]

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And some rumors say there's going to be a new S in photokina with 4k video..

 

I'm still taking that in with a weebit more than just a pinch of salt, but would be interesting if they did.

 

For my turn with the S-system I'm waiting for the 2nd hand market to come down further still.. the body prices are for sure reaching the territory within a year or two, but lenses seem to (typical Leica) hold better value there.

 

//Juha

[frogfish]

I am a wedding pro, too, and as Gordon, I use the M9 together with the Sonys and am quite happy with it.

[erlingmm]

And some rumors say there's going to be a new S in photokina with 4k video..

 

I'm still taking that in with a weebit more than just a pinch of salt, but would be interesting if they did.

 

For my turn with the S-system I'm waiting for the 2nd hand market to come down further still.. the body prices are for sure reaching the territory within a year or two, but lenses seem to (typical Leica) hold better value there.

 

//Juha

 

My observation is that non-CS-lenses for the S seem to go for 50-60% of new price, as many upgrade to CS versions. I would not take asking prices for a fact, but try a bid, many (especially 35mm) have been advertised for a long time.

[leicaphilia]

I am having an extremely hard time believing that. Is there any proof to back up this claim?

 

Alternatively, one could ask: Is there 'really' any proof to back up the claim that Leitz/Leica lenses are significantly 'better' than other well-made, well-designed lenses?

 

After having used Leitz/Leica products for 45 years, my experience is that their optics are no better, and some times not as good as, optics from other manufacturers that cost 1/3rd as much or less, in spite of the incessant internet drone about the unmatched excellence of Leica optics.

 

Case in point are the Contax G lenses. You can buy a Contax G1 with 28, 35, 45, and 90 lenses for less than the price of a used M7 body. I dare you to find a Leitz/Leica lens that surpasses either the 28, the 45 or the 90 Zeiss, and the 35 is as good most versions of the Summicron.

 

And yes, I'd agree that the VC 21 is as good as the Super Angelon. I've owned both.

[jaapv]

Alternatively, one could ask: Is there 'really' any proof to back up the claim that Leitz/Leica lenses are significantly 'better' than other well-made, well-designed lenses?

 

 

Yes, there is. Read the literature and see the MTF curves and Radial Edge diagrams.

Or - just look at images.

 

However, it is indeed a fact that other lens makers do offer high quality products. Why not, Leica has unparalleled expertise, but does not have access to magic dust.

 

An example- the Zeiss OTUS is as good or better in image quality than the Apo-Summicron. But look at the relative sizes. To achieve the Apo-Summicron size at this quality level takes magnitudes more design and manufacturing expertise.

 

 

 

Another example: The Canon 300/4.0L is close to the Leica Apo-Telyt 280/4.0, but uses nearly double the number of lens elements to get there and loses out on brilliance as a result.

 

And sorry, the VC 21 (a very nice lens all the same) does not even come close to the current Leica and Zeiss offerings in the 21 mm class.

[bocaburger]

And sorry, the VC 21 (a very nice lens all the same) does not even come close to the current Leica and Zeiss offerings in the 21 mm class.

 

He compared it to the Super Angulon, not Super Elmar. The VC 21 can be an amazing lens, but there seems to be sample variation out there. I'm lucky both of mine (screw and M) are properly centered and suffer no severe vignetting or other anomalies. Definitely makes for a more convenient travel lens than my Elmarit pre-ASPH

[viramati]

And sorry, the VC 21 (a very nice lens all the same) does not even come close to the current Leica and Zeiss offerings in the 21 mm class.

 

Well I have the CV 21/1.78 and the WATE and stopped down the Cv gives fantastic results both on the M and the Sony A7. Yes it a little soft wide open and has some other slight issues but for it's price it is really a no brainer and for me at least I would never spend the money that Leica want for the 21/1.4

Since owning the A7 and the superb FE 55/1.8 my lux 50 asph has only been used a couple to times. The FE55 just rocks and I can hit focus so much more easily than I ever could with the M and the lux 50 asph especially with subjects off centre and when shooting wide open.

As to the original OP's post I find that I only use the M for street work (with 28 cron asph) and with the WATE for landscape otherwise I am using 2 Sony A7's with the FE 55, 35 and 24-70. I do though still work with the 28 on the Leica and 55 on the Sony.

If Sony came out with a 28mm lens that equals the leica 28 summicron and a quieter camera with aperture settings and A DOF scale on the lens I would probably abandon leica all together

Edited July 15, 2014 by viramati

[furcafe]

I'm pretty sure Canon offered an eye-control focus system in at least 1 of their late film-era pro bodies at one point. I remember a friend's father owning 1 of them & trying it out; it did seem to work, though I thought it was pretty freaky. Not sure how well it worked in demanding situations for pros, etc.

 

. Until there is an AF system whereby I can stare at the exact point I want in focus and the camera focuses on it instantly, AF will not replace MF for me.

[jlindstrom]

And AF still can't think for you.. example (stupid one): Our windows are quite dirty. I was doing focus tests and could focus on a semi-visible dirt spot from 2 meters away. There isn't a single AF system with normal cameras that could do the same. They would focus on something through the window.

 

Naturally this would be the thoughest focus situation possible.. like a black cat in a coal cellar.

 

But at times this also applies to real world situations. AF is good when things are easy or need to track something large'ish.

 

//Juha

[jaapv]

He compared it to the Super Angulon, not Super Elmar. The VC 21 can be an amazing lens, but there seems to be sample variation out there. I'm lucky both of mine (screw and M) are properly centered and suffer no severe vignetting or other anomalies. Definitely makes for a more convenient travel lens than my Elmarit pre-ASPH

 

I had one and to be honest I was not impressed. It appeared to be a bit discentered, reason I returned it. Probably nice if you get a good sample. Ok SuperAngulon. A fine lens in its time and still well liked for its rendering. But hardly a Super Elmar.

[zlatkob]

And AF still can't think for you.. example (stupid one): Our windows are quite dirty. I was doing focus tests and could focus on a semi-visible dirt spot from 2 meters away. There isn't a single AF system with normal cameras that could do the same. They would focus on something through the window.

 

Naturally this would be the thoughest focus situation possible.. like a black cat in a coal cellar.

 

But at times this also applies to real world situations. AF is good when things are easy or need to track something large'ish.

 

//Juha

 

AF can deal with some very tough focus situations by using infrared assist. For example, infrared assist is available on most Canon flashes (and the flash can be turned off, leaving the infrared on). Using this, cameras can focus where our eyes can't see well enough to focus, and focus accurately & quickly even on action like people dancing in the dark and even when using a telephoto lens at a wide aperture. Sometimes AF technology can turn a difficult task into something almost effortless.

 

Supposedly the new Sony A7s can autofocus in -4EV light. We'll see. The Canon 6D already works at -3EV without infrared assist. With infrared assist, it can focus in complete darkness.

 

Also, some cameras offer AF points that can be made quite small. The 5D3 has a "spot AF" option that uses tiny AF points.

Edited July 15, 2014 by zlatkob

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Well I have the CV 21/1.78 and the WATE and stopped down the Cv gives fantastic results both on the M and the Sony A7. Yes it a little soft wide open and has some other slight issues but for it's price it is really a no brainer and for me at least I would never spend the money that Leica want for the 21/1.4

Since owning the A7 and the superb FE 55/1.8 my lux 50 asph has only been used a couple to times. The FE55 just rocks and I can hit focus so much more easily than I ever could with the M and the lux 50 asph especially with subjects off centre and when shooting wide open.

As to the original OP's post I find that I only use the M for street work (with 28 cron asph) and with the WATE for landscape otherwise I am using 2 Sony A7's with the FE 55, 35 and 24-70. I do though still work with the 28 on the Leica and 55 on the Sony.

If Sony came out with a 28mm lens that equals the leica 28 summicron and a quieter camera with aperture settings and A DOF scale on the lens I would probably abandon leica all together

 

Are you using your WATE on the A7 yet? I'm using mine on both my A7's and A7R and the results are fabulous. While I think the CV 21mm 1.8 is a really great lens mine is now for sale as I use the WATE with the CV helicoid adaptor on the Sony. The CV21mm still had a very slight Italian flag on the A7R. The WATE is close enough to perfect without correction.

 

However I can't agree on dropping the Leica in favour of the Sony. I actually bought my M240 after my A7's. At that time I had some real woes with Leica service, locally, and thought I'd transition totally to the Sony. But the tactility, build and shutter of the new M were too tempting and I have no regrets. I couldn't have that Sony shutter as my everyday camera. Sorry Sony.

 

I completely agree that the 55mm 1.8 is a simply stunning optic and I have lucked out with a very good sample of the 24-70. I also have the 70-200 and the "kit" lens as well as a few select A lenses (you've got to try the A 135 f1.8 Sony/Zeiss-WOW). The tilty screen and that sensor are a potent combo.

 

Howver the M is seductive. It's like a wild sexy woman. You know she's probably not the most sensible choice but you want her so badly, it's like a drug. With the M9 you still had to have a sensible option but the M240 can be your full time squeeze. Macro, zooms and long lenses are easy with the M and EVF. The Sony just doesn't have that "mojo". It's a brilliant tool but nothing more, for me.

 

I shoot landscapes with an A7R, WATE, 35mm, 55 1.8 and 100mm Zeiss macro. Commercial with a pair of A7's and CV 12mm, WATE, 24-70, 55mm, 70-200. Weddings are either the A7's, WATE, 24-70, 55mm, 100 Makro and the Sony 135mm 1.8 or a M240 and M9 WATE, 24 ASPH, 35 ASPH lux, 50 ASPH Lux, 90 SUmmarit and 135 APO telyt.

 

But if I had to give them all up but one, as good as the others are it'd be a 240 and a 50 lux ASPH for me.

 

Gordon

[viramati]

Are you using your WATE on the A7 yet? I'm using mine on both my A7's and A7R and the results are fabulous. While I think the CV 21mm 1.8 is a really great lens mine is now for sale as I use the WATE with the CV helicoid adaptor on the Sony. The CV21mm still had a very slight Italian flag on the A7R. The WATE is close enough to perfect without correction.

 

However I can't agree on dropping the Leica in favour of the Sony. I actually bought my M240 after my A7's. At that time I had some real woes with Leica service, locally, and thought I'd transition totally to the Sony. But the tactility, build and shutter of the new M were too tempting and I have no regrets. I couldn't have that Sony shutter as my everyday camera. Sorry Sony.

 

I completely agree that the 55mm 1.8 is a simply stunning optic and I have lucked out with a very good sample of the 24-70. I also have the 70-200 and the "kit" lens as well as a few select A lenses (you've got to try the A 135 f1.8 Sony/Zeiss-WOW). The tilty screen and that sensor are a potent combo.

 

Howver the M is seductive. It's like a wild sexy woman. You know she's probably not the most sensible choice but you want her so badly, it's like a drug. With the M9 you still had to have a sensible option but the M240 can be your full time squeeze. Macro, zooms and long lenses are easy with the M and EVF. The Sony just doesn't have that "mojo". It's a brilliant tool but nothing more, for me.

 

I shoot landscapes with an A7R, WATE, 35mm, 55 1.8 and 100mm Zeiss macro. Commercial with a pair of A7's and CV 12mm, WATE, 24-70, 55mm, 70-200. Weddings are either the A7's, WATE, 24-70, 55mm, 100 Makro and the Sony 135mm 1.8 or a M240 and M9 WATE, 24 ASPH, 35 ASPH lux, 50 ASPH Lux, 90 SUmmarit and 135 APO telyt.

 

But if I had to give them all up but one, as good as the others are it'd be a 240 and a 50 lux ASPH for me.

 

Gordon

I have tried the WATE with the A7 but actually find it much easier to use on the M for the following reasons

1. I find it a lot easier to focus accurately on the M due to being able to use the RF.

2. I like being able to use the EVF in the vertical position

3. As good as the files are on the A7 I find that they are better on the M and you have the advantage of the leica lens correction profiles

 

I love using the leica Apo-telyt 135 on the A7 the files are just stunning and with the better EVF focussing is very accurate

Edited July 15, 2014 by viramati

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[Sandokan]

I'm pretty sure Canon offered an eye-control focus system in at least 1 of their late film-era pro bodies at one point. I remember a friend's father owning 1 of them & trying it out; it did seem to work, though I thought it was pretty freaky. Not sure how well it worked in demanding situations for pros, etc.

 

EOS5e - works very well. I use it for school sports day with a 70-200mm L f4 lens and it nails focus every time. There are only 5 autofocus spots which are linear though. I have 2 different calibrated settings - one for when I wear glasses and the other for contact lenses.