earleygallery Posted January 28, 2014 Share #21 Posted January 28, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) OK then here's my suggestion. Leica have in the past made special editions for groups such as the LHSA. All the OP needs to do is give his spec sheet to Leica, ask for a price/minimum quantity and then get enough people to commit to actually buying one. Should be possible. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Hi earleygallery, Take a look here A digital M6. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted January 28, 2014 Share #22 Posted January 28, 2014 A camera is a computer like my washing machine is a computer. Neither requires a display to fulfil the primary function for which they are designed. To be honest, I thought your earlier analogy was being made tongue in cheek – I didn't realise you were seriously equating a digital camera with a laptop. I can take photos with my laptop. I can't take photos with my washing machine, can you? For the pendants - actually it would be possible to turn it into a large pinhole camera by replacing the door with a pinhole panel and fixing paper/film to the rear of the drum... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bla Posted January 28, 2014 Share #23 Posted January 28, 2014 OK then here's my suggestion. Leica have in the past made special editions for groups such as the LHSA. All the OP needs to do is give his spec sheet to Leica, ask for a price/minimum quantity and then get enough people to commit to actually buying one. Should be possible. No I think that's different. It's not a case of "I want green leather here and a pink Leica dot and please do engrave a flower on top" This would need a completely new design from scratch. Otherwise it'd be just a lame Df-like thing. I guess only then there would be people buying it apart from those that buy everything because they can and it's from Leica. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 28, 2014 Share #24 Posted January 28, 2014 No I think that's different. It's not a case of "I want green leather here and a pink Leica dot and please do engrave a flower on top" This would need a completely new design from scratch. Otherwise it'd be just a lame Df-like thing. I guess only then there would be people buying it apart from those that buy everything because they can and it's from Leica. Leica have made one-off items in the past and recently made a unique 'Apple M' too. If you're serious about this it's worth speaking to them, but you'd need to get customers to commit to purchasing which is where I think the plan will fall down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonmember Posted January 28, 2014 Share #25 Posted January 28, 2014 I wouldn't want one, and such a beast would open Leica to ridicule far in excess of what Nikon have had with the Df. A digital camera requires certain basic functionality. A menu system to operate it and display for histogram/clipping etc. We got away with this on film as it has such wide latitude for exposure, DOF etc. Crippling a digital camera does not make it a film camera. If you dont want to use the image review, switch it off. I do, but its there if I need it. If you want a digital M6, shoot an M6 with film and invest in a good film scanner! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoskeptic Posted January 28, 2014 Share #26 Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Actually, I would. You would still need a histogram of the image to show up in the viewfinder to check your exposure, but other than that I could really get behind something like this as a working tool. Edited January 28, 2014 by Photoskeptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bla Posted January 28, 2014 Share #27 Posted January 28, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I wouldn't want one, and such a beast would open Leica to ridicule far in excess of what Nikon have had with the Df. I didn't say it was for everyone, but I don't understand your point about Leica being ridiculed. The problem with the Df is that it's not thoroughly done. But I would the camera design to be no compromises. Just what you need and nothing more. And I think there are people that would like to have one. Buying a M6 and scanner still leaves me with the problems of a) where to buy film where to develop it c) developing and scanning taking so much time and d) I really wouldn't want to miss digital image process. It's quick and easy. And the IQ is really good these days. Cheers, Arvid Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 28, 2014 Share #28 Posted January 28, 2014 I can take photos with my laptop. So that makes it a camera and, by extension, it means your digital camera must therefore be a computer? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 28, 2014 Share #29 Posted January 28, 2014 So that makes it a camera and, by extension, it means your digital camera must therefore be a computer? Yes, that makes it a laptop with a camera function. My digital camera is a computer with a camera only function. Samsung make a camera that is also a phone, and most phones are also a cameras, and computers. I'm glad you finally agree with me! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etruscello Posted January 28, 2014 Share #30 Posted January 28, 2014 I appreciate my M-E very much precisely because I see it as the closest thing Leica produces to a digital M6. Much as the M8.2 was the engineering culmination of the M8 series, so too I think the M-E is the high-point culmination of the M9 series. As far as compactness goes, there may be no going back after M-E production stops. Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 28, 2014 Share #31 Posted January 28, 2014 @pop: Aw, come on! Maybe they should deliver it with 36 sensors, too... I wrote my suggestion to limit the capacity of the battery to 36 shots because of the following requirement: A new M that is in every aspect like the M6 was, but has a sensor instead of film. And i mean i EVERY aspect! Exact same size of the body, NO monitor, VERY limited control buttons. Only ISO and RAW or JPG can be chosen. So one would have the exact same shooting experience like back in the days on film, without the hassle of developing and scanning. Having to stop shooting every 36 frames and having to constantly think about the number of remaining shots certainly is one of the more prominent properties of shooting film, with the possible exception of the cameras with a supply of 30 meters of film. Of course, reducing the number of shots and eliminating the display would help in reducing the total weight of the camera as well. Sorry I don't understand you. A digital camera IS a computer. No, it isn't. A digital camera is device with a computer in it. The computer is part of the device, not the device itself. You have a stomach. You are not a stomach. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 28, 2014 Share #32 Posted January 28, 2014 A digital M6? I have a film one already so i'd prefer a digital M7 if you don't mind with a more contrasty viewfinder, more precise framelines at long to medium distance, a motor-winder adding little to no bulk to the camera (w/o grip please) and little to no noise to the shutter, faster shutter speeds and no more grain at 3200 iso than at 800 asa with film. The Leica of my dreams sort of... Reminds me something though Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 28, 2014 Share #33 Posted January 28, 2014 My digital camera is a computer with a camera only function.I'm glad you finally agree with me! I don't agree with you at all. (I missed off the rolling eyes from my earlier comment because I thought it was obvious I was being sarcastic. Here they are belatedly.) No, it isn't. A digital camera is device with a computer in it. The computer is part of the device, not the device itself. You have a stomach. You are not a stomach. Quite. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted January 28, 2014 Share #34 Posted January 28, 2014 Actually, I would. You would still need a histogram of the image to show up in the viewfinder to check your exposure, but other than that I could really get behind something like this as a working tool. Umm, how does a histogram show up in an optical viewfinder? You are asking for an EVF. That doesn't exactly simplify and it doesn't fit with the OP idea of a M6 digital. While we are going retro, why not an M3 digital? Who needs an exposure meter anyhow? I would not buy such a camera. The screen to me is just another tool to use, and I for one am happy to have as many tools as possible to help me. That doesn't mean I have to use all of them all of the time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted January 28, 2014 Share #35 Posted January 28, 2014 So her's the idea:A new M that is in every aspect like the M6 was, but has a sensor instead of film. And i mean i EVERY aspect! Exact same size of the body, NO monitor, VERY limited control buttons. Only ISO and RAW or JPG can be chosen. The monitor is one of the best things to come to photography since photography was invented. A digital camera without a monitor would be a strangely disabled device. I would not buy one. And one can turn off the monitor on any digital cameral. Making a smaller, lighter camera is a very worthy goal and will likely be achieved with improvements in monitor and battery technology. I don't agree with making a unique camera for the sake of uniqueness or to imitate a film camera. Only ISO and RAW or JPG can be chosen? Without a monitor, one would need a mechanical control to choose RAW or JPG — a control that was not present on the M6. How would you set a manual white balance? Check a histogram? Turn off lens detection? Choose black & white jpegs? Adjust the auto power off time? Choose sRGB vs. Adobe RGB? Reset the frame counter? Set the time & date? Format the SD card? I would not give up such important features to save on battery life or to make a camera for risky places. Instead, I think the direction of technology is reduced size & weight, better batteries and improved durability. Over time, the same goals can be achieved without needlessly limiting the camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
papimuzo Posted January 28, 2014 Share #36 Posted January 28, 2014 [..............]Only ISO and RAW or JPG can be chosen? Without a monitor, one would need a mechanical control to choose RAW or JPG — a control that was not present on the M6. How would you set a manual white balance? Check a histogram? Turn off lens detection? Choose black & white jpegs? Adjust the auto power off time? Choose sRGB vs. Adobe RGB? Reset the frame counter? Set the time & date? Format the SD card?[...................] How did you take pictures before all that adjustments were possible??? Never used film camera? I would bough one of the type described by the OP. Must say that I started to take pictures sixty years ago, with a folding camera... I have a M240 and can feel the weight and complexity discussed above! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george + Posted January 28, 2014 Share #37 Posted January 28, 2014 We have come a long way and while I would dearly love a thinner M, this may not be possible. But a manual wind MAY have possibilities. May even lead to a digital M without the need for external battery charging. Think what this could do in difficult locations including extreme cold. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 28, 2014 Share #38 Posted January 28, 2014 Only ISO and RAW or JPG can be chosen? Without a monitor, one would need a mechanical control to choose RAW or JPG — a control that was not present on the M6. How would you set a manual white balance? Check a histogram? Turn off lens detection? Choose black & white jpegs? Adjust the auto power off time? Choose sRGB vs. Adobe RGB? Reset the frame counter? Set the time & date? Format the SD card? Via a smartphone on WiFi, or a smart wearable such as a smart watchband. We already have examples of camera WiFi configuration and preview on phones. Just think of all the buttons and so-forth that could be eliminated. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted January 28, 2014 Share #39 Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) How did you take pictures before all that adjustments were possible??? Never used film camera? I would bough one of the type described by the OP. Must say that I started to take pictures sixty years ago, with a folding camera... I have a M240 and can feel the weight and complexity discussed above! I used a film camera many times. But a digital camera is a different tool. I would not disable the camera in order to feed a nostalgic longing for simplicity. We forget that film had its own complexity, from choosing a film to processing to printing to retouching. There were a heck of a lot of adjustments along the way. I read books about it and spent many hours in the darkroom. Simplicity with film only existed when one gave up or outsourced control over the image. For example, the Kodak 110 Instamatic was a paragon of simplicity. But it wasn't such a good camera. Digital can be as simple or as complex as one wants it to be. The level of complexity is just right when it is matched to the level of control one wants to exercise. Too little is bad, just as too much is bad. The reason the M240 is not as light and compact as the M6 is not that it's unnecessarily complex, but that its technology hasn't progressed to the point where it can be as light and compact. That may well happen at some point (in a future model) and without the need for eliminating the monitor and other important functions. Edited January 28, 2014 by zlatkob 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted January 28, 2014 Share #40 Posted January 28, 2014 Via a smartphone on WiFi, or a smart wearable such as a smart watchband. We already have examples of camera WiFi configuration and preview on phones. Just think of all the buttons and so-forth that could be eliminated. OMG. That would be complex. Carrying/wearing yet another device in order to set important settings. Now two power-dependent devices need to be charged instead of one. And they need to communicate. And they need to carried together. For the same of eliminating ... buttons? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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