earleygallery Posted March 6, 2014 Share #521 Posted March 6, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) The Leica T is a new camera unrelated to the M line. I personally think that it should be separate, and not engineered to be M mount compatible. Anything else will be a compromise solution, and Leica can't win. M users will most likely moan that it isn't a suitable solution, but it's not meant to be. As for an AF Leica M, the day must surely come, but again why shouldn't Leica break with tradition? They had to do exactly this when they switched from LTM to M mount. A new AF mount for a new camera, with some form of adaptor to enable M lenses to be used, probably with focus confirmation or the hybrid EVF it will probably use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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pop Posted March 6, 2014 Share #522 Posted March 6, 2014 ...there would need to be some sort of electronic linkage between lens and body so an AF M mount lens wouldn't be backwards compatible with existing M bodies ... With the exception of the power supply for the computers and the motor(s) in the lens there need not be any galvanic connections between body and lens, as the camera already includes 6 LEDs and photo sensors in the lens mount. It would be quite conceivable to use a couple of those for a bidirectional digital serial connection.Come to think of it, the venerable Polaroid SX70 already included soft battery packs in the film cartridge which - according to Polaroid - could be manufactured to practically every desirable shape; a nice aftermarket addition for the consumables for self powered lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen.w Posted March 6, 2014 Share #523 Posted March 6, 2014 Ummm... How do you propose to incorporate AF in an M mount. Leica cannot build an AF camera (if they so desire) other than by changing the mount.I wasn't suggesting anything of the sort. In mentioning the mount, I was simply describing the camera (T typ ###, or whatever it will be called), not implying an alternative of retaining the M-mount. If there's a huge gap for an affordable rangefinder, why did Epson/Voigtlander drop theirs?[/url]I honestly don't know, but that people are still willing to buy RD1s and M8s secondhand surely shows continuing demand. If there was a possibility of buying such a camera new, with a full warranty and electronic glitches sorted out, I think that demand would increase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 6, 2014 Share #524 Posted March 6, 2014 You do like to make absolute statements and I think you are missing Stephen's point. I honestly couldn't care either way but I don't see why an AF lens couldn't use the M mount. It might not be ideal and the lenses would likely have a fatter barrel than manual focus M lenses but the Contax G demonstrated that the lenses need not be large. Naturally, there would need to be some sort of electronic linkage between lens and body so an AF M mount lens wouldn't be backwards compatible with existing M bodies other than, perhaps, in simple manual focus mode (though I suspect such lenses would have dispensed with the RF cam so would only be usable on the M240 and successor bodies). Of course, this isn't what the T is going to be (we already know that) but that doesn't mean it couldn't be done. OK, so you want to design an EVIL APS-C in CL size on the M mount basis. That would be a thick square lump unless you got rid of the LCD (Could be viable on an EVIL, I suppose. ) But would a camera without LCD or plug-in LCD sell? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 6, 2014 Share #525 Posted March 6, 2014 I honestly don't know, but that people are still willing to buy RD1s and M8s secondhand surely shows continuing demand. If there was a possibility of buying such a camera new, with a full warranty and electronic glitches sorted out, I think that demand would increase. Demand for s/h products can't be used a measure. People buying a s/h M8 or M9 are still getting an M8 or M9. Make a cheaper product and it doesn't have the same desirability - look at how some people perceive the Summarit lens range. The choice won't be between 'cheaper new M' or M, it will be cheaper new M or s/h M. I can only assume that Epson didn't continue the RD line because they weren't selling enough of them, or couldn't charge enough for them. Zeiss were also expected to launch a digital body but dropped the idea, along with their film body (which was much cheaper than an M7, but didn't kill sales of the Leica). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted March 6, 2014 Share #526 Posted March 6, 2014 There is a huge gap for an affordable digital rangefinder camera to use with Zeiss/CV and Summarit lenses. The question isn’t so much whether there is a gap, but whether there is a market. It doesn’t look like Leica would build a more affordable (digital) M and there is no indication that someone else (Zeiss? Cosina?) would step in either. Also I don’t think the M8 (or something like it) could be the solution. Leica could not just continue manufacturing the M8 as it is, so it required a complete redesign based on some APS-H sensor – this would have to be a custom design and I don’t quite see how a new version of the M8 would be substantially less costly to manufacture than the M. As to the second, it seems to me to be a mug's game to introduce an APS-C interchangeable lens camera, with a new proprietary lens mount and a mix of autofocus zooms and primes, which may or may not be compatible with M-mount and other manual focus lenses. We have to wait and see what Leica does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted March 6, 2014 Share #527 Posted March 6, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) James - The one saving grace of Burlington Arcade is that most of the shops are not the same luxury brands one sees in excludive shopping districts throughout the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 6, 2014 Share #528 Posted March 6, 2014 OK, so you want to design an EVIL APS-C in CL size on the M mount basis. That would be a thick square lump unless you got rid of the LCD (Could be viable on an EVIL, I suppose. ) But would a camera without LCD or plug-in LCD sell? I don't want to design anything and who said anything about APS-C or EVIL? I wish you'd actually read what people write before spouting off. I was simply responding to your claim that "Leica cannot build an AF camera other than by changing the mount" which I think is nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 6, 2014 Share #529 Posted March 6, 2014 And I maintain it would be quite difficult to do so... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 6, 2014 Share #530 Posted March 6, 2014 No Leica news public before Photokina 2014: Perhaps only some short news: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/323309-save-date-april-24th-product-announcement.html#post2643059 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
janki Posted March 6, 2014 Share #531 Posted March 6, 2014 Perhaps only some short news: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/323309-save-date-april-24th-product-announcement.html#post2643059 They want to tease us with a tiny little look, - and I have absolutely nothing against that. Prepare for a Leica T show! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 6, 2014 Share #532 Posted March 6, 2014 And I maintain it would be quite difficult to do so... Tell that to Nikon. Sometimes, Jaap, you do need to think a bit before posting. Adding electronic connections to an existing mount didn't seem to bother Leica with the R mount, and my Sony E mount handles MF lenses with no difficulty. Or are you saying M stands for messucher ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 6, 2014 Share #533 Posted March 6, 2014 Make a cheaper product and it doesn't have the same desirability - look at how some people perceive the Summarit lens range. James - What are these so called "Summarit" lenses you speak of? I'm not sure if I've heard anyone mention them here before. Are they new? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 6, 2014 Share #534 Posted March 6, 2014 The Leica T is a new camera unrelated to the M line. I personally think that it should be separate, and not engineered to be M mount compatible. ..... A new AF mount for a new camera, with some form of adaptor to enable M lenses to be used, probably with focus confirmation or the hybrid EVF it will probably use. That's my opinion, too... whichever be the new mount , a M adapter can be surely made (the flange distance can't be made longer... it would be nonsense) and even if the camera is targeted to other users, many M users will buy it for this reason : to be honest, a slim quick AF Camera with a 18-55 CAN be appreciated in many situations.... keep your adaptable 90 or 135 in your pocket and it's even better... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 6, 2014 Share #535 Posted March 6, 2014 I am genuinely interested in an interchangable lens APS-C camera from Leica for the same reasons I was interested in the X1. APS-H would be a bonus, but I bet it is C, I don't have a problem with that. If it could be adapted to work with M lenses even better but it wouldn't be a deal breaker if it weren't. I also hope it shoots decent video and it would need fast focus and operation. That would tick my boxes for what I need in this sort of camera. As an aside, the reason I bought an M9 was because I was so impressed with the IQ of my X1. It made me investigate what else they were offering, I found the M9 and it's lenses and it was everything I was looking for so I bought a 3 lens kit soon after. Quite literally, hook, line and sinker; all from the X1 and in a month of owning it. So as much flack as they seem to get from it, I think this may be great move for Leica and I don't think APS-C means "old technology" just because another company has a FF sensor elsewhere. Open up new markets and get people in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 6, 2014 Share #536 Posted March 6, 2014 Tell that to Nikon. Sometimes, Jaap, you do need to think a bit before posting. Adding electronic connections to an existing mount didn't seem to bother Leica with the R mount, and my Sony E mount handles MF lenses with no difficulty. Or are you saying M stands for messucher ... Oh yes, I have been thinking. This is an old, narrow mount.Where would these contacts be situated? Not in the flange - that is full metal to metal and there needs to be (retro-)compatibility with existing lenses, so it has to be an internal contact strip, like the R ROM. There is simply no space. Like Canon, they had to switch to EOS. We might also wildly speculate to the significance of the letter “T”. R is SLR, S is DSLR - What can the sequence signify? OM-D style? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierovitch Posted March 7, 2014 Share #537 Posted March 7, 2014 Just insert all the Leica X speculation again. It will all be wrong - again:rolleyes: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 7, 2014 Share #538 Posted March 7, 2014 ....We might also wildly speculate to the significance of the letter “T”.... Toy... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted March 7, 2014 Share #539 Posted March 7, 2014 The Leica T is a new camera unrelated to the M line. I personally think that it should be separate, and not engineered to be M mount compatible. . I wonder if they even go as far as making the lenses leaf shutter units - great for a quiet shutter and flash ; but also a deliberate, calculated, exclusion of M and other lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 7, 2014 Share #540 Posted March 7, 2014 Just insert all the Leica X speculation again.It will all be wrong - again:rolleyes: That is the only speculation that has a 98.36 % chance of being correct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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