APO Summicron 50/2 ASPH: Central veiling flare / fogging

[dewilde]

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My lens hasn't improved, if that is what you mean, and it still fails by a mile to justify its high cost.

 

No actually, I shot a lot with my lens as when I first got it (traveled a lot with it). It was flaring and ghosting horribly but when it didn't the colors and contrast, bokeh, rendering were amazing, really justifiable results. But the flare ruined a large majority of my images.

 

Now when I got back, I sent my lens in.. Took them a while, it came back and the ghosting was "minimized" but still not gone, and the flare was still all over the place, but I noticed over the last month and a bit that the overall contrast has severely diminished, and the colors aren't as vibrant. Kind of upsetting, as now the lens definitely isn't worth the premium.

 

No real response from Leica, and to top it all off, my M240 has misaligned AGAIN.

[Nicolas Soldati]

No actually, I shot a lot with my lens as when I first got it (traveled a lot with it). It was flaring and ghosting horribly but when it didn't the colors and contrast, bokeh, rendering were amazing, really justifiable results. But the flare ruined a large majority of my images.

 

Now when I got back, I sent my lens in.. Took them a while, it came back and the ghosting was "minimized" but still not gone, and the flare was still all over the place, but I noticed over the last month and a bit that the overall contrast has severely diminished, and the colors aren't as vibrant. Kind of upsetting, as now the lens definitely isn't worth the premium.

 

No real response from Leica, and to top it all off, my M240 has misaligned AGAIN.

 

Thank you for sharing your experience. I ordered mine one and a half year ago. Meanwhile, I have to say that I am generally not impressed for the images I sow from this lans on the web. Some of them have a strong flare in a normally not critical situation. I am considering to move for the "less perfect" Lux. This is an APO lens too and it has more character and is best suited for portraiture. For perfect landscape lens, I alteady have the wonderful Sinaron SE on the sinar P2.

 

So, I will probably move for the "50APO Lux" instead of the 50 APO Cron.

 

 

 

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[MarkP]

So, I will probably move for the "50APO Lux" instead of the 50 APO Cron.

 

You will not be disappointed.

[dewilde]

You will not be disappointed.

 

Hmmm.... Yes and No IMHO it's a great lens, but not the perfect lens everyone claims it is.

 

First, it's a stellar lens, I own it, along with the Noctilux and a ton of other 50mm lenses (I'm a fifty guy mainly).

 

The issue I have with the 50LUX is that DOF curvature is really bad. So when you focus and recompose a portrait, it's usually not sharp. I've had the lens calibrated and re-calibrated and I've always had this issue, up until 2.8 where there's enough DOF to compensate (at around 1m distances and lower).

 

The Noctilux is a easier lens to hit focus with wide open in my opinion. The 50APO is the easiest (and not due to the increased DOF, I'm talking if we set all three 50mm to f/2 the 50APO is still the easiest to hit focus).

 

The 50LUX really doesn't have anything else wrong with it, and I think that even the curvature is really not that difficult to overcome if you have the right technique.. At medium to far distances, it's has a awesome look! Bokeh can get a bit distracting at mid-full body distances sometimes, and that's also where I find the APO is more to my liking rendering wise (bokeh and other, of course when it's not flaring and acting dull).

 

 

Again, if my issues with the 50APO could be resolved, I don't think I'd ever consider selling it.

Geeze, just wish Leica would get their act together

 

 

 

BTW - I've always had the same issues with the 50LUX, and I even used the 50/2 ZM for a long time because of it. So it's not a new shinny toy is better issue for me.. It's a real issue. Maybe my lack of skill is the reason, but it's still a real issue.

 

Then again, I'm the same guy that's owned two 35LUX-ASPH lenses and didn't have a focusing issue (focus shift) while everyone else did. So maybe lucky with a my 35s unlucky with my 50s?

[algrove]

Here it is. I don't have the photo before the lens got sent black, but I recall very shiny silver rings inside.

 

It is not too clear for me, but it seems I see one thin silver band deep inside. Does that sound about right? Thanks for the posting.

[mkrzyzow]

For my copy, the flare is largely predictable and does not present a problem for most of what I do. I used the APO for months alongside the Summilux ASPH and found a preference for the APO: tremendously smooth focus transitions, great and consistent contrast wide open, a smaller size, equal or better color, more consistent sharpness for landscape use, plus I was in the minority that when using the Summilux greatly preferred its rendering at 2.8-5.6 as opposed to its wide open look.

 

I still use a Rigid and pre-APO Summicron alongside the APO, as I find each of their rendering styles a better match for particular subjects/situations, including people shots. While the uproar over the flare issue seems well-justified, I would be hesitant to send in my copy until I see clear evidence of a revision that preserves the positive attributes of the lens. If that happens, I would definitely consider it.

[dewilde]

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For my copy, the flare is largely predictable and does not present a problem for most of what I do. I used the APO for months alongside the Summilux ASPH and found a preference for the APO: tremendously smooth focus transitions, great and consistent contrast wide open, a smaller size, equal or better color, more consistent sharpness for landscape use, plus I was in the minority that when using the Summilux greatly preferred its rendering at 2.8-5.6 as opposed to its wide open look.

 

I still use a Rigid and pre-APO Summicron alongside the APO, as I find each of their rendering styles a better match for particular subjects/situations, including people shots. While the uproar over the flare issue seems well-justified, I would be hesitant to send in my copy until I see clear evidence of a revision that preserves the positive attributes of the lens. If that happens, I would definitely consider it.

 

If you like the contrast and color, you shouldn't send yours in. I'd have kept my copy until a real fix was found had I known the impact sending my lens in would have on my images.

[younes]

This has certainly been done before, but maybe some of you would still be interested in the following flare comparison between the APO Summicron 50 and the ASPH Summilux 50.

 

Pictures taken with a Sony A7 and Novoflex adapter @ f/16. Camera orientation was set in order to maximize the observed flare in the EVF, i.e. to show the worst case scenarios:

 

1) APO Summicron 50

 

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2) ASPH Summilux 50

 

 

 

 

This illustrates that both lens can behave quite badly under certain circumstances, and that the APO Summicron 50 is not an isolated case in the Leica range. I nevertheless enjoy both lenses for their numerous qualities.

[lct]

Not sure if those are the best CVF conditions. I would try to shoot a dark subject surrounded by bright areas as in RickLeica's and melantye's pics below at f/16.

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[Bill W]

This has certainly been done before, but maybe some of you would still be interested in the following flare comparison between the APO Summicron 50 and the ASPH Summilux 50.

 

Pictures taken with a Sony A7 and Novoflex adapter @ f/16. Camera orientation was set in order to maximize the observed flare in the EVF, i.e. to show the worst case scenarios:

 

1) APO Summicron 50

 

[ATTACH]418983[/ATTACH]

 

2) ASPH Summilux 50

 

[ATTACH]418984[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]418985[/ATTACH]

 

 

This illustrates that both lens can behave quite badly under certain circumstances, and that the APO Summicron 50 is not an isolated case in the Leica range. I nevertheless enjoy both lenses for their numerous qualities.

These look like normal flare when shooting almost into the sun and what one would expect to see.

[younes]

I admit that the flare in my pictures is not exactly CVF. In fact, I was not able to induce that phenomenon with my APO Summicron 50.

 

CVF may be an anomaly of certain APO 50, but I find the flare shown above to have an even greater impact on the image quality.

[jdlaing]

Circa 1960 my mother handed me a camera for a school trip to a US Army War of 1812 Fort.

 

She said Rule #1 was " Do NOT shoot into the sun."

 

I forget from time to time but when I get these results I remember ..........

[platypus]

Hmmm.... Yes and No IMHO it's a great lens, but not the perfect lens everyone claims it is.

 

By now you have must have chalked up enough life experience to realise that absolutely nothing can be expected to be perfect, and of course the APO 50 is not.

However, from my own experience with my copy of this lens paired with the Monochrom, this is an extraordinary 50. I think for anyone wanting to acquire one

it is well worth the wait, the cost and the bittersweet experience of it's mildly idiosyncratic ways.

[wlaidlaw]

I really sympathise with you guys having laid out all this money for a lens that has a serious problem, which seemingly can be alleviated but not cured, especially after my recent bad experience with a new 0.95 Noctilux. I am afraid for smaller slower Leica 50’s I even gave up on the “normal” 50 Summicron after one poor one and two bad ones 1) soft at edges, 2) de-centered optical cell plus a loose element and 3) wrongly ground RF cam and bought a 50/f2 ZM Planar. It is as close to flare proof as any lens I have and you can certainly shoot into the sun with it. I often use this as a technical lens and find that at f2.8 or smaller, it has a very flat field. I have just bought a LEI-M adapter, so that I can use it for macro with my Novoflex bellows.

 

Of course it will not quite have the ultimate resolving capability of the new APO but Zeiss claim 200 lp/mm, which is not shabby. For anyone who has understandably lost patience with their APO, I think you could do worse than try the ZM50/2. That is what I did going from the ordinary Summicrons and the Planar very pleasantly surprised me plus I ended up with money in my pocket.

 

Wilson

[MarkP]

I really sympathise with you guys having laid out all this money for a lens that has a serious problem, which seemingly can be alleviated but not cured, especially after my recent bad experience with a new 0.95 Noctilux. I am afraid for smaller slower Leica 50’s I even gave up on the “normal” 50 Summicron after one poor one and two bad ones 1) soft at edges, 2) de-centered optical cell plus a loose element and 3) wrongly ground RF cam and bought a 50/f2 ZM Planar. It is as close to flare proof as any lens I have and you can certainly shoot into the sun with it. I often use this as a technical lens and find that at f2.8 or smaller, it has a very flat field. I have just bought a LEI-M adapter, so that I can use it for macro with my Novoflex bellows.

 

Of course it will not quite have the ultimate resolving capability of the new APO but Zeiss claim 200 lp/mm, which is not shabby. For anyone who has understandably lost patience with their APO, I think you could do worse than try the ZM50/2. That is what I did going from the ordinary Summicrons and the Planar very pleasantly surprised me plus I ended up with money in my pocket.

 

Wilson

 

This post is not to have a go at anyone who owns and is happy with their APO-Summicrons - I still am tempted but will not take a bite from that apple, not that it's even available at the moment.

 

So I was about to post on exactly your point Wilson. The APO-Summicron is certainly capable of extraordinary images but at that extraordinary price I would expect it not to have extraordinary flare (especially when unpredictable regarding which individual unit and under which conditions).

 

I imagine that a good unit must be a delight to own and use but owning a dog woud be very frustrating.

 

The Summiulux ASPH (FLE) and non-APO Summicron may have their limitations but they are highly predictable. However, Im considering a ZM Planar to add to my 50s for when I want that level of 'perfection' (undefined).

 

In Ming Theins review of the ZM Planar and APO Summicron what impressed me the most was not the $7400 USD APO-Summicron but the $860 USD ZM Planar. The technical differences really were miniscule (perhaps we should all sell our leica lenses and stick with ZMs ). So there's the Planar for technical perfection and there are all of the other Leica 50s for art

[MarkP]

Circa 1960 my mother handed me a camera for a school trip to a US Army War of 1812 Fort.

 

She said Rule #1 was " Do NOT shoot into the sun."

 

I forget from time to time but when I get these results I remember ..........

 

Well with all due respect to your mother and her circa 1950's lenses , I want lenses I can point at bright light sources! I'm sure many would agree that shooting in such conditions can be amongst the most challenging and rewarding of experiences.

 

All Leica lenses but not the APO-50:

 

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[dewilde]

This post is not to have a go at anyone who owns and is happy with their APO-Summicrons - I still am tempted but will not take a bite from that apple, not that it's even available at the moment.

 

So I was about to post on exactly your point Wilson. The APO-Summicron is certainly capable of extraordinary images but at that extraordinary price I would expect it not to have extraordinary flare (especially when unpredictable regarding which individual unit and under which conditions).

 

I imagine that a good unit must be a delight to own and use but owning a dog woud be very frustrating.

 

The Summiulux ASPH (FLE) and non-APO Summicron may have their limitations but they are highly predictable. However, Im considering a ZM Planar to add to my 50s for when I want that level of 'perfection' (undefined).

 

In Ming Theins review of the ZM Planar and APO Summicron what impressed me the most was not the $7400 USD APO-Summicron but the $860 USD ZM Planar. The technical differences really were miniscule (perhaps we should all sell our leica lenses and stick with ZMs ). So there's the Planar for technical perfection and there are all of the other Leica 50s for art

 

Ming's review has always bothered me, as at the time when he published his review I was using a prototype 50APO (along side my 50/2 ZM) and I found them to be leagues different. I don't know if he was trying to conduct a bias review, or if he just happened to pick a test spot that gave him similar results, but I don't find them THAT similar at all.

 

Now don't get me wrong. I love the 50/2 ZM, I'd put it up there with my all time favorites, but the rendering from the ZM is completely different then the rendering from the 50APO. Technically they're very good lenses, and the ZM has the massive price advantage, but they're not similar in there look one bit (for the way I shoot).

 

And yes, I will agree... The 50/2 ZM doesn't flare at all compared to the 50APO... I was honestly considering just buying a filter for once, and using it on the 50APO, was going to buy a Zeiss filter, thinking that the T* coating might help (LOL) but they don't make them that small..

[dugby]

This post is not to have a go at anyone who owns and is happy with their APO-Summicrons - I still am tempted but will not take a bite from that apple, not that it's even available at the moment.

 

So I was about to post on exactly your point Wilson. The APO-Summicron is certainly capable of extraordinary images but at that extraordinary price I would expect it not to have extraordinary flare (especially when unpredictable regarding which individual unit and under which conditions).

 

I imagine that a good unit must be a delight to own and use but owning a dog woud be very frustrating.

 

The Summiulux ASPH (FLE) and non-APO Summicron may have their limitations but they are highly predictable. However, Im considering a ZM Planar to add to my 50s for when I want that level of 'perfection' (undefined).

 

In Ming Theins review of the ZM Planar and APO Summicron what impressed me the most was not the $7400 USD APO-Summicron but the $860 USD ZM Planar. The technical differences really were miniscule (perhaps we should all sell our leica lenses and stick with ZMs ). So there's the Planar for technical perfection and there are all of the other Leica 50s for art

 

I came out of the closet too, bought a ZM Planar 50mm whilst contemplating if a 50AA will join my stable. But I did follow up with purchases of 35 and 50 FLE Lux's

 

Be interesting if Zeiss does a ZM Otus ......

[Ecar]

Can't go wrong with the Planar 50/2. It's a reliable, highly-predictable, "near-perfect" lens.

Although I must admit that I find it somewhat "uninspiring", unlike the (otherwise quirky) Sonnar 50/1.5.

A bit like the Summicron 35 ASPH: nothing wrong with it, yet I can't get myself to love it.

But that's just me...

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Hallo,

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[MarkP]

Can't go wrong with the Planar 50/2. It's a reliable, highly-predictable, "near-perfect" lens.

Although I must admit that I find it somewhat "uninspiring", unlike the (otherwise quirky) Sonnar 50/1.5.

A bit like the Summicron 35 ASPH: nothing wrong with it, yet I can't get myself to love it.

But that's just me...

 

Oh I really like my 1.5/50 Sonnar, but technically perfect it's not!