21mm f1.4 or f3.4 for a Leica newbee/addict

[01af]

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... is the series VIII filter a Lee filter or a Leica filter?

Depends on whether you buy a Lee filter or a Leica filter.

[algrove]

Tanks Japp...........excuse my lack of knowledge but is the series VIII filter a Lee filter or a Leica filter

 

B+W or older Leica filters which you see from time to time. Just as a precaution on mine I use a UVa, but C-polarizing, ND say 0.6 and an 81A warming are also some of my favorites.

 

Sorry forgot to clarify that they just fit between lens and hood which has space for a filter on purpose. The Series VIII filters have no threads that I have ever seen. Well designed in that regard, but we should know Leica thinks of most eventualities.

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[jaapv]

The size is certainly available from B&W, and possibly also Heliopan (not sure about that one)

[thighslapper]

I have yet to see the point of a super fast wide angle lens .... apart from a dramatic lightening of your wallet and corresponding weight increase in your hand.

 

I regularly use only one sub 3.4 lens these days and thats a Nocti 0.95.

 

What ARE you going to do with f1.4 at 21mm anyway..... apart from posing ?

 

You can hand hold at 1/8 or 1/6 with 21mm and get shake free pictures with no problem....

 

This was with the 21/3.4 handheld with my arm against some railings....0.5 secs....

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Edited August 16, 2012 by thighslapper

[MarkP]

I have yet to see the point of a super fast wide angle lens .... apart from a dramatic lightening of your wallet and corresponding weight increase in your hand.

 

I regularly use only one sub 3.4 lens these days and thats a Nocti 0.95.

 

What ARE you going to do with f1.4 at 21mm anyway..... apart from posing ?

 

You can hand hold at 1/8 or 1/6 with 21mm and get shake free pictures with no problem....

 

This was with the 21/3.4 handheld with my arm against some railings....0.5 secs....

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/landscape-travel/216756-ice-skaters-paris.html

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/architecture/170587-eiffel-tower-ad-nauseum.html

 

Handheld at night, ISO 400. No tripod, no monopod, no railings, nothing to lean on to support the camera (especially when pointing it upwards). Sharp enough to enlarge to A2!

 

Enjoy your huimble pie:D

 

No-one out there using a 1.4/21 is posing as no-one else knows what the hell it is - just some daggy old camera with what appears to be a normal sized lens compared with the DSLR world.

 

As I, and others, made clear in my earlier post it is a fantastic lens that has it's uses, and I'm lucky I could afford one (with my wife's blessing:))

Edited August 16, 2012 by MarkP

[algrove]

OK, I'll bite (forget the pun) what is "huimble pie"?

 

I often use mine at ISO1250.

[IkarusJohn]

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The size is certainly available from B&W, and possibly also Heliopan (not sure about that one)

 

I had a 3 stop Heliopan Series VIII filter for my 21/1.4. I couldn't get it into the hood, and split it trying to then get it out. The B+W filter slips straight in.

 

Cheers

John

[IkarusJohn]

I have yet to see the point of a super fast wide angle lens .... apart from a dramatic lightening of your wallet and corresponding weight increase in your hand.

 

The assumption is that you use this lens (or any other fast lens) only wide open. I like to have the option of using my lenses at all stops, though rarely stopped down to f/16.

 

I rather like Peter Kalbe's comment that your f stop is to set your depth of field. With a wide angle lens, a limited depth of field is sometimes useful if you can get it.

 

Cheers

John

[MarkP]

OK, I'll bite (forget the pun) what is "huimble pie"?

 

Humble pie typed without my glasses .

Edited August 17, 2012 by MarkP

[MarkP]

The size is certainly available from B&W, and possibly also Heliopan (not sure about that one)

 

B+W are apparently discontinuing production of the Serie VIII filter, so if you need one get it whilst you can.

[rramesh]

A piece of advice. Looking at your posts, you seem to be buying too many lenses too fast. Suggest to stick to a one or two lens kit for a while and them consider more lenses later. A am on a trip right now carrying 21, 35, 50 and 90 and frankly I can do with just the 35 and 50 most of the time. Your bag will feel lighter and you wouldn't need to fiddle with different lenses and miss the moment.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

A piece of advice. Looking at your posts, you seem to be buying too many lenses too fast. Suggest to stick to a one or two lens kit for a while and them consider more lenses later. A am on a trip right now carrying 21, 35, 50 and 90 and frankly I can do with just the 35 and 50 most of the time. Your bag will feel lighter and you wouldn't need to fiddle with different lenses and miss the moment.

I actually haven’t bought any lenses: Well that’s not 100% true, I have the 35mm f2 that I bought at the same time as I bought the M9-P (6 weeks ago).

For the last month I have been sat on an Oil Rig in Angola and have been using the experience of this forum to help make my mind up what to buy next. I had originally ordered a 21mm f3.4 and a 50mm 1.4 from the Leica dealer in Scotland but seeing as I have had time on my hands I wanted to see what other options are out there.

I have already made my mind up to only have 3 Leica Lenses;

35mm f2

21mm f????

50mm f1.4

I have a D3s as well and will carry that with me when I feel I may need it and that puppy will have the 70/200mm attached to it in case I need a long lens.

[Scarlet]

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/landscape-travel/216756-ice-skaters-paris.html

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/architecture/170587-eiffel-tower-ad-nauseum.html

 

Handheld at night, ISO 400. No tripod, no monopod, no railings, nothing to lean on to support the camera (especially when pointing it upwards). Sharp enough to enlarge to A2!

 

With respect, it would seem to me that with an M9 at 400 those images of Paris could easily have been made with a slower lens. Doesn't prove the point at all of the purported necessity of a 21/1.4.

 

Still nice photos though.

 

The 21/1.4 is an awfully large and heavy lens which - in my humble opinion - doesn't match well with the portability of the M system. That the next 21 is at 3.4 leaves a large hole in the lens lineup, methinks. An f2 would be nice.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Scarlet

[pgk]

I have yet to see the point of a super fast wide angle lens ....

One of my most used lenses is Canon's 24/1.4 which I use for available light photography wide open much of the time. Fast wides are simply another tool in the set, if you don't need them then fine, but if you do then they are invaluable - they do indeed have a point though;). As I said before choosing between f/3.4 and f/1.4 is a matter of determining whether you are going to use a fast lens wide open. If you don't know then IMHO its highly unlikely.

[MarkP]

With respect, it would seem to me that with an M9 at 400 those images of Paris could easily have been made with a slower lens. Doesn't prove the point at all of the purported necessity of a 21/1.4.

 

I think it is highly unlikely I could have taken these with a lens which was three stops slower with the camera handheld and unsupported at night at a shutter-speed and ISO setting that let me enlarge up to A2 prints. There would have been unacceptable artefact from camera shake and/or high-ISO noise.

 

It's not like I haven't also used slower 21's - initially the 4.5/21 ZM C-Biogon, and then the 3.4/21 SEM.

 

I should say that I also agree with earlier comments regarding the usefulness of this lens for street photography. Plenty of DOF at a reasonable ISO and shutter-speed.

 

 

 

Still nice photos though.

 

and thanks:)

Edited August 17, 2012 by MarkP

[bybrett]

I think it is highly unlikely I could have taken these with a lens which was three stops slower with the camera handheld and unsupported at night at a shutter-speed and ISO setting that let me enlarge up to A2 prints. There would have been unacceptable artefact from camera shake and/or high-ISO noise.

 

I agree, what shutter speed were you shooting at? 1/30?

[Scarlet]

Actually I just see the ice skating was shot at 200 with 1/6 and f4 according to the EXIF. The other ones at 400 with shutter speeds between 1/8 and 1/45.

 

Everyone's quality demands vary, naturally. Have you printed these images at A2?

 

I still maintain that the ice skating photo - which I do find nice - could have been shot at a higher ISO with the 3.4 (which btw is more like 2,5 stops slower than the 1,4 unless I'm entirely mistaken).

 

Edit: The DOF at f4 at a distance of approx 15m (I have no idea how far away the building is) is infinite beginning at 6m. At f1.4 it would be 19m beginning at 10m. So it the ice skating could have been shot very differently with a bit of planning.

 

Anyway to go back to the OP's question. I agree with the poster above who said he's buying too many lenses. And I think he's going about it the wrong way by setting his mind on having only so many lenses. I understand the practical circumstances (the oil rig etc) make it difficult to try before buying etc which is why the forum is useful. So I can fully understand the wish to buy lenses untested. I believe he'll benefit from the possibility to sell lenses at no or little loss so there's no harm in trying if the cash is available. I would encourage him, though, not to disregard the longer focal lengths.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Scarlet

[MarkP]

Hi Scarlet,

 

my mistake. You're absolutely right about the exposure for this photograph:o. I had lumped it in with the same ISO as the Eiffel photographs (ISO 400, 1/30).

 

I take on board your interesting suggestion about alternate exposure planning for this photograph, thanks.

 

My comments about the Eiffel photos still stand though.

 

and yes...great prints at A2. Just this week I'd submitted some photos for the art show at the hospital where I work and sold seven photos:eek:.My first exhibition & photograph sales:)) including the skaters!

 

However, I think I'll stick to my day job:rolleyes:

Edited August 17, 2012 by MarkP

[MarkP]

I agree, what shutter speed were you shooting at? 1/30?

 

 

Hi Brett,

 

Confirmed with the EXIF data after my mistake with the skaters:

ISO 400, 1/30, f1.4 (& some half a stop slower).

 

Mark

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[algrove]

The 21/1.4 is an awfully large and heavy lens which - in my humble opinion - doesn't match well with the portability of the M system..

 

Agree the 21/1.4 is large, but no larger than the Noctilux, in fact it is smaller. If you need that capability then get one.

 

I actually find that the 21/1.4 and Noctilux give my M9 setup a nice balance. Sure smaller lenses have their benefits and in fact from PR releases it sounds like Karbe wants to get back to producing smaller, higher quality lenses for the M system. Sadly those prices, if the APO 50/2 is any example, are actually higher than both the 21/1.4 and 24/1.4 today. But if you want to produce 1.4 lenses for those needing them, then they will be larger in diameter and heavier due to the glass. Still on the street most people do not even notice me since I do not have a zoom tele on a DSLR.

 

Actually the 50/1.4 is the smallest 1.4 that I can think of when comparing the "newer" M lenses.

 

I own smaller lenses too, but when I need a lens for night shooting on the street I would be crazy not to go out without a 1.4 whatever. With the M9 I sometimes push my ISO up to 1250 at night even though using a 1.4 lens and only go for smaller f stops when I need/want more DOF.

 

A funny aside, only one guy in a small French town noticed my M9 with Zeiss lens a couple of years ago and congratulated me on my setup. Now recently many Japanese and some Chinese tourists take note of my Leica setup with (what I assume is) admiration and appreciation for it due to the nod they give me. Often they will watch my framing and setup (I walk around a lot before taking a photo) and then after I take my images they move into the same spot for a copy-cat photo.

 

The 21/1.4 gives a very nice DOF even at 1.4 for me when ISO lets me use a higher speed since I am one of those who can no longer do hand held shots at slower speeds. 40 years ago I had no problem with 1/15 or 1/30th on film even when shooting at low ASA levels.