Summar 'Black Rim' lenses; how scarce/rare?

[dkCambridgeshire]

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There are several variants of the 50mm Summar lens ie:

 

Rigid, collapsible, nickel, chrome, plain rim and black rim and the rare 'Tropical' with extra lens element.

 

Many rigid lenses were converted to collapsible hence the rigid's scarcity.

 

Black rim prices seem to be rather variable judging by the following:

 

Leica Screw Mount Lenses

 

WestLicht Photographica Auction ... see Lot No. 90 Four Summar lenses inc. two black rim - one chrome and one nickel ... sold for €900

 

WestLicht Photographica Auction Lot 86 , 'Tropical Summar' with extra front lens element ... not a 'black rim' but included this for sake of interest as I was unaware of its existence.

 

WestLicht Photographica Auction ... Lot 56 ... Black rim Summar sold for €306

 

WestLicht Photographica Auction Lot 68 Black Rim Summar €732... ( Note also Lot 70, the 'cutaway' Summar)

 

But how many 'black rim' types were actually made? When were they made? Why the black rim? Is there in fact any documented definitive data available to prove whether or not the black rim types are in fact really scarce or rare?

 

Cheers

 

dunk

Edited November 13, 2010 by dkpeterborough

[luigi bertolotti]

The only fact that seems rather sure is that the black ring collapsible Summars were made "initially"... the items one can spot, in the sources you quote, in the books etc... are under the 200.000... the Puts' list speaks of a batch of 3000 Summars 192001 - 195.000... were they all black rim ? I haven't idea; in my opinion the varying range of prices depends mostly on conditions... all collectors know how difficult is to find a FINE Summar, in case with extras like a nice box or so... I think it is not so rare as the fixed mount... probably a very good chrome ring one can bring higher value than a rather bad black ring one.

About WHY was the front ring black... I have never read any explanation : one hipotesis that could be done is about the question of the special Agfacolor filter... the SUmmar was made in the collapsible-non rotating mount just, it seems, to allow the usage of those special "color-banded" filters... which had a black mount: could be that at Leitz they thought that a black rim could be less prone to damage when mounting/dismounting that device, or that it was simply "more in harmony with"... or even for better avoiding risks of reflections (I don't know how the filters fitted onto... could be such a risk didn't exist anyway, indeed).

Edited November 14, 2010 by luigi bertolotti

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[diser]

I don't think "black rim" itself has anything to do with the lens price or collectible value.

Like Luigi said, the lens condition may be more of a concern.

 

P.S. Seems like in past several years 50mm Summar prices hit a dive.