Leica/LUF @ P'kina in English

[sdai]

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Unfortunately Leica doesn't have copier, printers and other business machines to support their camera division - unlike Canon and for that matter Ricoh. Other wise we might see an R system and or (speaking of silly) a modular camera system.

 

That's a very good point, Terry. But, what makes the S2 possible then? perhaps every M9 customer is paying a S2 tax I guess.

 

Now we know the S system will never be complete, they are on the verge of abandoning the planned T/S lens and not mentioning about the 350mm anymore.

[bill]

Now we know the S system will never be complete...

 

...and your proof of this unambiguous statement is...?

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[sdai]

...and your proof of this unambiguous statement is...?

 

Jesus Christ, Bill, do you really have to waste your time to ask and my time to answer?

 

Development

The S-System will be developed further. Planned introductions are:

24mm Ultra –Wide-angle

30mm super wide-angle (incl. Optional central shutter)

30-90mm Zoom

a tilt-shift lens has not been decided yet demand is under observation and has to be analyzed.

 

Where is the 350mm?

[UliWer]

That's a very good point, Terry. But, what makes the S2 possible then? perhaps every M9 customer is paying a S2 tax I guess.

 

Now we know the S system will never be complete, they are on the verge of abandoning the planned T/S lens and not mentioning about the 350mm anymore.

 

The M-System will never be complete. There are still some lenses on some people's wishlists which have neither been announced on the Photokina nor has anybody seen them.

[bill]

Jesus Christ, Bill, do you really have to waste your time to ask and my time to answer?

 

Development

The S-System will be developed further. Planned introductions are:

24mm Ultra –Wide-angle

30mm super wide-angle (incl. Optional central shutter)

30-90mm Zoom

a tilt-shift lens has not been decided yet demand is under observation and has to be analyzed.

 

Where is the 350mm?

 

Clearly I do, and kindly don't go all God-botherer on me. You are incapable of reading, or perhaps comprehending. I have emboldened the key words for your benefit in your quote.

 

The glass-half-full merchants are getting really tedious...

Edited October 7, 2010 by bill

[sdai]

Clearly I do, and kindly don't go all God-botherer on me. You are incapable of reading, or perhaps comprehending. I have emboldened the key words for your benefit.

 

Yes, Leica says the S system will be developed further ... (although I sense a bit reluctance here).

 

BUT, TO WHAT POINT?

 

Now they aren't sure about the T/S lens which has been announced.

 

Now they don't talk about the 350mm which has also been announced.

Comparing what they are talking about now to what they have announced, is it complete???

Edited October 7, 2010 by sdai

[bill]

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Good grief.

 

You really do read into things what you want, don't you? Between you and Frank facts have less chance of surviving than film.

 

Shifting in 3 posts from:

 

"Now we know the S system will never be complete..."

to:

"Yes, Leica says the S system will be developed further..."

 

is a feat of flip-flop worthy of Red Ed.

[lct]

Thank you Andreas, Klaus and Andy.

Bad news for me as i hoped that Leica would launch a 0.85x M9 in a foreseeable future. So no digital M until my dear old Epsons fall apart i'm afraid.

As an R user, i did not expect miracles but the perspective of using R glass in auto mode is fading away.

Will keep using my R lenses with 5D for some time but my next purchases will be Zeiss lenses most probably.

Bit sad after 30+ years of Leica love i feel.

[sdai]

You really do read into things what you want, don't you? Between you and Frank facts have less chance of surviving than film.

 

Hehe ... I understand that whatever Leica says should only be strictly taken at its face value and I don't really care about what they are doing as long as I also understand if there's no R10, then there's no orthodox R solution.

 

C'mon ... an adapter is a solution, eBay is also a solution.

 

I'm glad that Leica no longer promise on anything anymore. If you don't plan to do it, then don't say it.

 

By the way, I think that chances for film to survive are fatter than for the S2 ... put your name down if you want to bet.

Edited October 7, 2010 by sdai

[sdai]

Bad news for me as i hoped that Leica would launch a 0.85x M9 in a foreseeable future. So no digital M until my dear old Epsons fall apart i'm afraid.

 

The Q/A already says they are not planning for anything other than .68x and will refer customers to external magnifier vendors, LCT.

[lct]

The Q/A already says they are not planning for anything other than .68x and will refer customers to external magnifier vendors, LCT.

That's what i got yes. Customers like me are not interesting for Leica obviously.

[bill]

LCT, I suspect it has more to do with the technical challenges involved in the thickness of the body and the focussing tolerances for a digital sensor than any personal dislike

[lct]

LCT, I suspect it has more to do with the technical challenges involved in the thickness of the body and the focussing tolerances for a digital sensor than any personal dislike

That reassures me.

[Bo_Lorentzen]

All in all, a good summary of the meeting, personally Im not as into fast-wide as some are, and would rather have some more compact lenses for the S, but hey who am I to talk anyway.

 

Im cool with my M so no worries on my side.

 

As for the incredible M9ti, before we loose all perspective, grab your girlfriend and hop first class ticket to Hong Kong, and you will have spend close to a M9ti just for the trip, why not get a camera for the stay.? (last I checked they seemed to be selling out first class for every flight, so this price thing is really just a issue of perspective.)

 

.

[rosuna]

LCT,

 

why do you discard the use of a magnifier from Leica? There are x1,25 and x1,4 magnifiers made by Leica. They are expensive, but very bright. Using magnifiers has an advantage: you can take it out and get better view for wide-angle lenses.

 

Rubén

[bill]

To be fair, Rubén, they are uncomfortable with spectacles and they catch on your clothes. They are far from ideal. I sympathise with LCT.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Guest BigSplash]

In response to Bill's rhetoric above maybe someone or even Bill himself can explain how the S2 will overcome competitors such as Hasselblad, and Phase One to create a sustainable profitable business with what we learned at Photokina:

• Just four lenses are currently available 35mm, 70mm, 120mm macro, and 180mm but not shipping yet in quantities
  
• Tilt Shift lens ....now under re evaluation
  
• 24mm dummy shown at last Photokina now questioned for market size and not enough space for an in lens shutter (See LFI)
  
• 30mm lens now in devt.
  
• Professionals are not buying yet since we are told that there are insufficient lenses and other things not exactly in line with the expectations of a Professional (eg Tethering has only been available since August and then this happened "indirectly" via Adobe ...see LFI)
  

Hope I am as usual missing something here. Personally I would love to see them grow from the niche they have created with the M9 and bring out a M10 with characteristics demanded by professionals...such as superb QA out of the box, high reliability, rugged build and maybe even a flash sync contact.

[lct]

...why do you discard the use of a magnifier from Leica? There are x1,25 and x1,4 magnifiers made by Leica...

Done this been there Ruben. Not my cup of tea. Now why should we use accessories with modern Leicas frankly? Magnifiers, viewfinders, thumb ups and so on. How is it that a $7K camera cannot provide what a cheap Bessa can do? Well never mind. I know there's nothing i can do. Sad to say but Leica looks more and more like a passé brand to me.

[Posto 6]

The solution for me will be between R lenses on Sony (for the image stabilization), working harder on making the 200 blad and digital back work, or selling the lot and buying the S2 when there are enough lenses for it.

 

After our experience with the R-system, why come back for more of the same with the S-system, which has yet to establish itself in the market? Like the Leicaflex, it seems that Leica have missed the boat with the pros, so the S-system will be rather lucky to even get as well-accepted in the market as the R-system did.

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Hallo,

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. How is it that a $7K camera cannot provide what a cheap Bessa can do? .

 

You're in luck, then. Since a cheap Bessa fulfills all your wishes, I can see no reason for you not buy one of those instead of a 7k camera which is sadly lacking in all those respects.