plasticman Posted June 24, 2010 Share #41 Posted June 24, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) What I find funny is the constant re-iteration of the 5% figure for film camera sales. Quite apart from the fact that 5% of the company's income is quite a hefty chunk, it's a percentage that will probably grow rather than shrink next year: not based on greater sales of film cameras but on a settling down of sales of M9s - which we can assume are currently at their height, and slant meaningless percentage statistics in favor of digital. Much more interesting would be to know the actual year-on-year sales figures (probably a steady decline). Quite apart from the fact that for the first time I can remember, I'm no longer the only person I know who's combining film and digital - I think there really is something of a renaissance going on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 24, 2010 Posted June 24, 2010 Hi plasticman, Take a look here The next Lecia M film camera. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Nikkor AIS Posted June 24, 2010 Author Share #42 Posted June 24, 2010 Thanks to all that have reponded. Im encouaged by the information provided in this thread and Im more hopefull than ever that there will another Leica film camera in the near future. I see resurgence in the interest in shooting film and especially using Leica M system. ( Check out the Nikon cafe film section) And personally since starting to use Leica camera Iv been making a point of letting my other photographer friends get there hands on them. If they express an interest I even let people I meet while shooting hold , look and snap a couple of shots with the Lecia M camera. It's very interesting to watch there reaction to the Lecia M experience. Its hard to notice there smiles and enthusiasm. It's interesting to note that my oldest son after using the Leica M3 refuses to even touch his Nikon D70 I bought him a couple years ago. Being told "Dad Im just "not" interested in digital photography, but I love the M3.. That's my boy. And other boy(youngest) who just got his first Nikon film camera (FM2) wants to shoot with my Leica in bad way. And after finsihing off his four roll of film in 2 weeks and seeing the results he is getting with the FM2 , you know it's only a matter of time. You think Im buying all these leica's just for me:). While Iv told him that has to become profeient with the Nikon first, he has already said "I want a lecia for next my camera". He is seven. Lecia are you listening. So when I hear film is dead, it has no future:rolleyes:. And those voices go unchallenged I feel the need/obligation to step and say. Wait a minute. I disagree. Maby your just quitter. And you feel bad that you threw your film camera under the bus and you want everyone else to "jump on the bandwagon so your not alone staring at you digital pictures on your lillte screen stressing about how many pixal you got. And when the next model comes out you will feel inadaqate untill you get that model. And none of that will improve your photgraphy even a little. Say what you want, one thing that film has going for it that there is a perment record of your efforts. There is no delete button when you shoot film. The chimp screen is in pre-visualation in your mind. Digital makes you insecure. Hell, even me. When really got back to shooting film I felt the need to chimp with my D3. Now Im back in the zone. I just know when I got it. And I when I dont. I just just cant put into the words the feeling of serienty and calm intensity I feel when in that process. My experiece and confindece with the leica m system grows everyday. And I donty use them because there smaller. Or better than my Nikon's. Because really my FM2 ( sorry my old FM@ that son now has) and my 58 1.2 AIS Noctural is about the same size weight as my Lecia MP and my 50 1.0 Noctilux. It's the rangefinder way of seeing the world that has got my heart strings. Once you see the world the world through a rangefinder you are forever changed. And silky smooth feel of the lenses and shutter threasold is .., Well, there is nothing like it. Even the sound of the shutter especially the M3/MP makes me feel better about the world around me. And the results are nothing to complain about either. I really think for film to go forward we need the next generation to embrace the techology, become proficient in the process and yes have a new release (camera) for there generation. It's time to move forward and really look at how lecia film M's are marketed. I really think getting Lecia film M in young folks hand and up to there eye is the key. I seen it first hand and the tactile and visual experience is not something that can be felt over the internet It's sad that people have been so brainwahed to check the stats and how many pixals a camera has that they lost what is really important. and that is how you and the camera become one. If I where Lecia I would include a box(50 rolls) Tri-x with every new film Leica sold. Give them a tank and couple of reels and enougt D-76 /stop fix /sleeves to get them going. That is all it would take. It would be good for Lecia , good for kodak, good for photography in general. Far from me to be hypocritical after buying used Lecia M from folks that switched to digital M. But i would see an ad from Leica that would read. Dont sell your M3/M6/M7/MP in order to buy the M9 you will live to regret it. . I guess my point is despite having to endure the "Film is dying" mantra so often by those who to there own regret have thrown there film camera under the bus. Jumping on the bandwagon is only fun if you can get other to get on board. My take on the issue is Film use in on the upswing. The next Lecia M film camera is in many ways the is one of the most important Lecia in there history . Leica shooter in training Gregory Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 24, 2010 Share #43 Posted June 24, 2010 ...Dont sell your M3/M6/M7/MP in order to buy the M9 you will live to regret it. . Few of us have done this way: I have M8 - not M9 - and to acquire M9 or 10 or what is it I could consider to sell it - NOT my M3 or M4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplomley Posted June 24, 2010 Share #44 Posted June 24, 2010 Well, I have a pair of M8s and a pair of M7s. I refuse to sell my M7s, but one of the M8s could go towards the M9. But that won't generate enough revenue, so I'm thinking of selling my 28 Cron Asph. I don't like to sell lenses in order to obtain digital bodies, as they depreciate so damn fast, but the M9 is just so much $$, and I need to keep at least one of my M8s as a back-up. Sometimes I just get fed up with the whole planned obsolescence business model that digital represents. Not to mention I just ripped some 24" x 30" prints from Mamiya 7II scans of Provia 100F, and there is no way the M9 will beat the quality I can obtain from my Mamiya 7II. So why am I considering an M9? Simply because I borrowed one for my trip to Santiago de Cuba, and the portability as a function of the pixel count simply cannot be matched. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dk_samurai Posted June 24, 2010 Share #45 Posted June 24, 2010 Just yesterday I read an article about why the M7 didn't get 1/2000 shutter speed: it's because the Leica engineers deemed that the cloth curtains weren't stable enough to handle the added stress in the long run. Speeds over 1/1000 was first available with the release of the M8. I don't understand why people are looking at the 5% film camera sales as a dooms day number. Lets pretend that before the release of the M8, Leica sold 50 film cameras a month and 50 digital cameras a month. So film camera sales are at 50%. Now lets pretend we're in 2010 and Leica still sells 50 film cameras a month, but now digital camera sales are up at 950 units a month. Hence "only" 5% of sales are with film cameras. I don't really believe that film camera sales are falling. I think it's been steady since the release of the M7 and MP, just that Leica now sells more digital cameras than ever before, and therefor making it look as if film camera sales have declined. But that's just me and my theories. My Leica film camera won't be sold any time soon, so why am I worried? Why are YOU worried? Best, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted June 24, 2010 Share #46 Posted June 24, 2010 If I were Leica I'd have a kick-ass scanner on the market. I'd also be looking at aquiring Kodak 64 rights (or any other film), production and developing facilities. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplomley Posted June 24, 2010 Share #47 Posted June 24, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) If I were Leica I'd have a kick-ass scanner on the market. Agreed. I suspect they would sell a greater number of scanners than they have the Pradovit D1200 projector. If they came out with a scanner between $8K-$10K, they would give HBlad a run for their money on the X1. Kodak just shut down Creo, so perhaps that would be an opportunity! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 24, 2010 Share #48 Posted June 24, 2010 I would rather spend M9 money on a Leica scanner than an M9. If they could actually make them, or more likely have them made, in quantities that would sell. But, I don't believe they would ever do it (film is so last century...) and I also don't believe they will ever bring out a new film camera (for the same reason) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted June 24, 2010 Share #49 Posted June 24, 2010 I would rather spend M9 money on a Leica scanner than an M9. If they could actually make them, or more likely have them made, in quantities that would sell. But, I don't believe they would ever do it (film is so last century...) and I also don't believe they will ever bring out a new film camera (for the same reason) Customers decide. The most expensive part of a Leica camera for film is the optical rangefinder. If customers decide against the future of the optical rangefinder for digital Ms, Leica won't be able to uphold their small production of film Ms. If customers decide different, we might still see them for a long time. If you look at the Leica page for M-cameras you see a film M with a 50-Elmar lens. Leica Camera AG - M-System About 15 years ago, recordplayers were last century. Now we have so many digital audio gear - and more different brands of recordplayers than 20 years ago. Ask Linn in Scotland if they are going to abandon their record players. In Germany T+A just brought out their second model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 24, 2010 Share #50 Posted June 24, 2010 There's a difference between continuing to make existing models, where the R&D has been sunk years ago, and spending serious cash on a completely different model. I see no reason why Leica shouldn't continue to make M7 and MPs until there really is no demand for them. Why would they when they can virtually make them to order. But, developing a NEW model is completely different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeplanter Posted June 24, 2010 Share #51 Posted June 24, 2010 I would rather spend M9 money on a Leica scanner than an M9. If they could actually make them, or more likely have them made, in quantities that would sell. But, I don't believe they would ever do it (film is so last century...) and I also don't believe they will ever bring out a new film camera (for the same reason) Several months ago we were asked by Andreas (I think) to submit questions that would be put to Leica. I asked about film scanners and the answer was an emphatic no, Leica has no plans to build a film scanner or partner with a third-party to build a scanner. So that's that I guess. Jim B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted June 24, 2010 Share #52 Posted June 24, 2010 I thought that it was well known that Leica Camera produces some cameras and lenses in batches rather than continuous production. I would expect that the M7 and MP are in that category. Clearly their resources currently are focused on maximum output of the M9. There are lenses that have become very difficult to obtain also, for example the Summilux 50 ASPH. That does not necessarily mean that the lens (or others) is discontinued either. However it ought to be no surprise that these items are low volume and you are very unlikely to see them freely available as a general rule. If you want something from that category you need to place an order and wait. The rumour seems to centre on how readers choose to interpret what Dr. Kaufmann meant. Unless Dr. Kaufmann speaks Japanese then this presumably is a translation into Japanese (from remarks made in English by a non-native speaker I guess?) and now those translations have been re-translated back into English. That is a lot of room for interpretation and opinion on meanings. In any case it does not represent any official statement by Leica Camera. You can watch the Stefan Daniel interview for what he actually said on the subject and you can now read the official response from Leica USA also. The last time that I can recall this speculation came up on this forum, Leica Camera allowed some forum members into the clean rooms to see assembly of film M's and show the photos and video here. Anyone can place an order for an M7 and MP right including customising it under the ala carte program. If you want one place an order. Few people will, although the demand in Japan remains healthy and higher than can be fulfilled, according to Stefan Daniel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor AIS Posted June 25, 2010 Author Share #53 Posted June 25, 2010 Me no worry David. My cup runeh over as Lecia film camera's are concerned .You know the more I read about the al-cart Leica MP/M7 cameras, the more interested I become. How great is it to have a camera specially built for you. However I cant think of one thing I would change about the M7/MP I already have, except havig more time to shoot. I agree with Andy about the research and development cost. On the the other hand, perhaps Leica already has done the R&D and is sitting on the next lecia M camera right now:D. In fact I would be surprised if that wasnt the case. Think about it, the next Leica M film camera may already exsist in the prototype phase. Leica if your reading this thread I would love to be a beta tester. Really I would. The translation part of this discussion is troublesome if one is try to determine where Lecia is going as far as future film camera develpoment. Perhaps it would be helpfull to hear from Leica company themselves. I mean this is the Leica forum. Gregory Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted June 25, 2010 Share #54 Posted June 25, 2010 Now Im back in the zone. I just know when I got it. And I when I dont. Love that Gregory. It's very true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_n Posted June 25, 2010 Share #55 Posted June 25, 2010 I would rather spend M9 money on a Leica scanner than an M9.So would I. Actually I would spend more!I asked about film scanners and the answer was an emphatic no, Leica has no plans to build a film scanner or partner with a third-party to build a scanner. So that's that I guess.Why should it be? Leica is supposed to listen here so we should tell them there is sense in this; partner with a quality 3rd party, put a red dot on it and sell it for $$$. I won't go Leica digital but a Leica scanner to go with my Leica cameras and enlarger would provide the perfect working environment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 25, 2010 Share #56 Posted June 25, 2010 The "no" of Leica on a scanner is at all logical in industrial/marketing terms: 1) If it would be a "prosumer" model made re-labeling some 3rd party model, at a premium price, only some of we Leicistes' community would buy it : little numbers, low interest by scanner manufacturers---> no economics. 2) If it would be a definitely Pro model, that would be a device destined to significant workload -----> maintenance and support issues that Leica ought to manage partly by itself (being it, formally, a Leica product) : doesn't worth risk and cost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 25, 2010 Share #57 Posted June 25, 2010 Moderator has deleted gratuitous link to a gratuitous photo posted in an inappropriate forum thread. Gregory Gregory, PLEASE get out of the habit of sticking a random picture or five in your EVERY post. It is BLOODY IRRITATING for those of us accessing the Forum on Smartphones. Thank you! Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted June 25, 2010 Share #58 Posted June 25, 2010 Peter I think that there simply isn't sufficient demand for Leica (or anyone else) to introduce a new dedicated film scanner. Other manufacturers have pulled out of the market for the same reason (Nikon for example). The only high end film scanners that I am aware of are Imacon (now Hasselblad) and of course they are very unlikely to be entering into any partnerships with Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor AIS Posted June 25, 2010 Author Share #59 Posted June 25, 2010 Hey Bill, feel free not subsribe to any thread I contribute in:p. If you want to start with this one , that works for me. I dont beleive Im breaking any forum rules Im I? So I'll continue to contribute to this forum in meaning full way. Unlike your self in this thread. It would be great to be able to please everyone. I just cant be bothered to please the like's of you, especailly with your rude tone and little dig. It's not my problem or my concern that photo's make it hard for you on your little "device". What can I say, you threw it out there and more more than will to return back right back at Ya:rolleyes:. And it's kind of irionic that you post one of photo's, telling me not to post photo's:rolleyes:. Feel free to P.M me if want to discuss this further. The issue of the Leica not having a scanner is interesting one. Especially since they at one time didnt leica have a most excellent enlarger, red dot and all?. I just found out today when dropping off some film and picking some C-41 up , that my local super store chain is removing 45 processing machines from "all" stores in alberta. Kind of sucks for my pal who is long time lab manager, who runs the lab I go to with care and quality control of pro lab. I guess the writing is on the wall. Processing at home or going to expensive pro labs is soon going to be the only games in town. Gregory Gregory Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 25, 2010 Share #60 Posted June 25, 2010 Hey Bill, feel free not subsribe to any thread I contribute in:p. If you want to start with this one , that works for me. I dont beleive Im breaking any forum rules Yes you are. Outside of the photo forums photographs are only meant to be posted if they illustrate a particular technical point - I doubt that showing that you own a number of Leica's counts on those grounds, no matter how proud you may be of them. If I'm wrong I'm sure a mod will be along soon to tell me so. The problem is also that until you open a thread you have no idea who is subscribed to it, so your advice doesn't actually work in practice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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