Has this been solved ?

[nyckylim]

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Hi Guys,

 

After some posts in the general forum, i've finally decided to purchase the X1.

 

However, I read in a review stating that:

 

The X1's autofocus speed is not, to be honest, particularly on the fast side at the best of times, and it slows down considerably in very low light such as dimly-lit interiors (especially if you turn off the bright orange AF illuminator for the sake of discretion). On the plus side, for the vast majority of the time it's extremely accurate, although in very low light conditions it occasionally gives spurious focus confirmation, with the green rectangle lighting up on the screen even when the subject is visibly misfocused. the X1 struggles to match a modern compact such as the G11, let alone Panasonic's state-of-the-art GF1 (in fact even my 3-year old Fuji F30 is considerably faster, tested side-by-side).

 

And

 

Unfortunately, though, the X1's implementation of manual focus has a couple of problems. Most importantly, in anything other than dim light the lens stops down uncontrollably, and doesn't open up again to F2.8 for focusing. This makes really accurate manual focus impossible, especially if you're aiming for selective focus at F2.8.

 

I just wanted to know if this issue has been resolved.

 

Thanks

Nycky

[h00ligan]

Not yet.. af may never get better.. scale for mf could be improved. There's a thread about sensor restrictions using contrast detect that pontificates it may be a hard limitation.

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[NZDavid]

No. The slow AF is a nuisance. But having done some more reading and talking to others, it appears other compacts (and even some DSLRs) can also be annoyingly slow. OTOH, the image quality is extremely high. Definitely a compromise. Try before you buy if possible.

[leicashot]

Want a large sensor in a small camera? You're gonna get slow AF, such as the Sigma DP-1/2 models and somewhat in the Olympus M4/3 models. The Leica being the largest will obviously have the slowest focus....but it is very accurate, at least in my experience.

[tom0511]

No, and the x1 is considerably slower than the Olys m4/3 with latest firmware.

[leicashot]

No, and the x1 is considerably slower than the Olys m4/3 with latest firmware.

 

...but the quality of the X1 is considerably better than the Olys m4/3

[Ecaton]

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Another alternative is the Ricoh GXR A12. Same sensor as X1. Faster AF after FW upgrade. Superior build quality, Ricoh UI, which is head and shoulders above the mft, X1, Sigma DP ones.

[tom0511]

...but the quality of the X1 is considerably better than the Olys m4/3

 

It depends. Here are my thoughts:

1) at ISO 100 I did some quick comparisons between the x1 and the E-P2 with 17mm lens. Not scientific, but same subject from same point and same fov. The differences were - IMO-not great if any.

2) at higher ISO 400 and above I am sure the larger sensor does have an advantage. However-if you want the same DOF you need to stop down the x1 one step further than the m4/3. That means you can shoot the m4/3 at 1 step lower ISO than the x1.

Also-for static subjects you get the in body stabilization where you gain another 2-3 stops (of course doesnt help for moving things).

Also there are faster lenses available for the m4/3.

Still - here should be a small advantage for the x1.

But then there is AF - we say the x1 has an advantage in higher ISO=lower light, but then the AF sucks in lower light plus there is the orange AF assist llight drawing attention.

 

So my conclusion of the x1 as of today:

-you get a little bit more DR and a small advantage in higher ISO and a nice user interface but you pay with a much slower AF, less flexibility in lenses, worse display, no video, double price.

 

The best sensor and lens doesnt help if you dont get catch the moment (because AF is slow) or if you have not focused correctly.

 

The area where I see a strength of the x1 is for landscape and still shooters who do like 35mm fov.

I have a kid, I like riding the bike, going paragliding etc. and I want to be able to catch moments. I get the feeling the x1 is not made for that.

[nyckylim]

Hey Guys,

 

I just found the perfect way to judge the speed of the X1's AF. I cant believe I have never thought of this such a simple solution it until one member suggested it to me yesterday. Haha.

 

 

Cheers

Nycky

[h00ligan]

...but the quality of the X1 is considerably better than the Olys m4/3

 

Its less plasticky but far more delicate with far worse quality control and known issues. Certainly the build quality is not better...though you may feel it seems more well built..that is not the case honestly.

 

Edit. Sorry i thought you meant build quality.. As for iq I don't think it's way better either..better yes, but the law of diminishing returns applies in great force. If the x1 had faster operational speed, not just af, I could see the price tag. It's lagging in several areas. Why not do third step ev, why not have an ael lock configuration, why not have af distance scale that adjusts to be more specific, why not do mf around the lens, why not use a much better screen?

 

At the end of the day the x1 has dslr iq, in a small and (to me) pocketable package. They should include the grip, the lens cap sucks, battery life sucks, af is slow, card write and read times are slow, zone focusing is hard with that scale, the buttons could arguably have stronger detents, and it costs two grand. The iq below 800 unless printing big is not much ahead of mft. The minimum focusing distance is too long, theres no macro mode, no is - really their method is useless, the lens is not fast (which is offset in mft with the faster panny 1.7).

 

All that said I may suck as a photographer but I am a lifelong, highly qualified technology expert, and leicas choices with this camera puzzle me unless they were just flat out lazy. You know..thanks for making me spell out what I think...it's going back, hopefully the x2 will fix all these issue, but for the money - it isn't good enough. I think for now buying a used m8 would get one closer to the goal...I have yet to do that

 

@Tom it's definitely not for that.

Edited June 10, 2010 by h00ligan

[jsrockit]

Well, honestly...the M8 isn't a perfect camera either. You will be frustrated with certain aspects of that camera too. There is no perfect camera. For me, the X1 is close at least. I think some of the aspects that people cry about are comical.

[tom0511]

Well, honestly...the M8 isn't a perfect camera either. You will be frustrated with certain aspects of that camera too. There is no perfect camera. For me, the X1 is close at least. I think some of the aspects that people cry about are comical.

 

I allways found the so called flaws of the M8 to be no flaws for working with it. The only downside was that one has to pay for the filters. Other than that it worked just fine (at least for me).

I dont find the x1 AF issue can be neglected. I might keep the camera anyways, but I think we can all agree that its success and also the potential of the camera would be much better with a faster AF.

I dont find it comical if people wish that the x1 would offer a faster AF, a better display and some minor improvements in functions (which can probably be included by firmware later).

[jsrockit]

tom0511, I can handle all of the M8's short comings except for the very inaccurate framelines. They are worst than any other M by far.

 

The things I find comical about the X1 comments are the dials are too loose, lens cap, and price... the dials aren't that stiff, but they aren't horrible. The lens cap issue... go buy a different one or don't use it. The price? This is Leica, they are always more expensive than they should be.

[DRabbit]

It goes to show how different people can perceive things differently...

 

tom0511, I can handle all of the M8's short comings except for the very inaccurate framelines. They are worst than any other M by far.

 

I've nothing to compare it to, as I've never shot with another Leica M... however, it's never been much of an issue for me, though I hear that complaint a lot. Maybe I just got used to it really fast and don't notice it... I dunno.

 

 

The things I find comical about the X1 comments are the dials are too loose, lens cap, and price... the dials aren't that stiff, but they aren't horrible. The lens cap issue... go buy a different one or don't use it. The price? This is Leica, they are always more expensive than they should be.

 

I wonder if Leica has "fine tuned" some of these issues with later batches. I wouldn't describe the dials as "stiff" (like my M8), but the do click into position rather well. The lens cap complaint is a new one... I AM the person who always loses a lens cap, and I haven't really had any issues with the one on the X1 (yet at least - LOL). As for the price... well, wouldn't we all love to see Leica cameras at cheaper prices? Sure, I would have been a whole lot happier if the X1 had been a $799 or $899 camera. Jeez, I'd be happy if the M9 had been priced like the M8 was when it was released!

 

I've only had the camera a few weeks, but I also didn't notice any issue with the battery door or the vulcanite on mine... though I'll completely admit, the camera might be too new to display the "peeling" issue...

 

Edited June 10, 2010 by DRabbit

[h00ligan]

Well, honestly...the M8 isn't a perfect camera either. You will be frustrated with certain aspects of that camera too. There is no perfect camera. For me, the X1 is close at least. I think some of the aspects that people cry about are comical.

 

Yah, I hear you.. nothing is perfect. I Love the IQ from the x1 but with speed issues and price tag, I feel it's better to see if they can fix them (even just a bit) then revisit. I love handling it, I have no issues with battery door or vulcanite peeling which is why i didn't mention it.. It's a great cam for some I'm sure.

[jsrockit]

It goes to show how different people can perceive things differently...

 

I've nothing to compare it to, as I've never shot with another Leica M... however, it's never been much of an issue for me, though I hear that complaint a lot. Maybe I just got used to it really fast and don't notice it... I dunno.

 

It could be that you are not composing all the way to the edges of your frames and are more lose with your compositions / framing. I use my entire frame to compose and am very conscious about what is supposed to be on the edge of the frame... and then I get a lot more on the top and the left side when I look at the image... not a little... a lot.

[DRabbit]

It could be that you are not composing all the way to the edges of your frames and are more lose with your compositions / framing. I use my entire frame to compose and am very conscious about what is supposed to be on the edge of the frame... and then I get a lot more on the top and the left side when I look at the image... not a little... a lot.

 

Could be. I think it also depends on what you primarily shoot, because from what I understand (and have experienced occasionally) is that it get worse the further away things are. They are optimized for a specific distance.

 

I know it's an issue because I've heard others complain about it as well... it just hasn't been much of one for me personally. Of course, I can't imagine it would hurt if they were MORE accurate than what I have now - LOL

 

Maybe someday when I can afford an M9 or an MP I'll realize just how bad the M8's framelines were!

[jsrockit]

I think it also depends on what you primarily shoot, because from what I understand (and have experienced occasionally) is that it get worse the further away things are. They are optimized for a specific distance.

 

Very true...I am talking about further away compositions. Also, with film Ms, you generally don't develope within seconds of taking the picture...and you may not remember how you exactly framed the shot. Chimping has allowed users to see just how inaccurate framelines can be.

[DRabbit]

Very true...I am talking about further away compositions. Also, with film Ms, you generally don't develope within seconds of taking the picture...and you may not remember how you exactly framed the shot. Chimping has allowed users to see just how inaccurate framelines can be.

 

Very good point!

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[NZDavid]

It could be that you are not composing all the way to the edges of your frames and are more lose with your compositions / framing. I use my entire frame to compose and am very conscious about what is supposed to be on the edge of the frame... and then I get a lot more on the top and the left side when I look at the image... not a little... a lot.

 

The Leica M framelines are designed to be fullframe only at close focusing distances. At longer distances and infinity the image is slightly wider, approximately to the outside edge of the framelines. (Günter Osterloh in Leica M Advanced Photo School has a detailed explanation.)