Which Noctilux?

[tony740607]

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When I joined this forum a couple of months ago I had just bought the M9 with the 50mm Cron. Since then you have helped me with buying the 21mm Elmar f2.8 and the Tele-Elmarit 90mm f2.8. I felt as well that I needed something in between the 50 and 21 and last week being in Hong Kong I bought a new 28mm Cron. It has been a great lens during the weekend to shoot especially the street markets. And architecture as well (I wonder how much I will use the 21mm from now on).

 

I feel I have all the lenses I need. The next thing will be to upgrade the 50mm and then the 90mm. Both to something with larger maximum aperture. 50mm upgrade will come first. I am thinking mainly on the Noctilux. I have tried the 0.95 a couple of times and I like it very much. But the price is very high and would like to know if I should consider earlier Noctilux lenses and in that case which ones? There might be older ones that gives "better" looks? I see they are quite common on the second hand market. (Summilux can also be an option).

 

Thank you.

[luigi bertolotti]

The decision to buy a Noctilux is a critical one... if one hasn't firm in his mind that he WANTS to shoot at f1 (or 0,95) is probably better to stay away... they are heavy, costly, need a certain learning curve to be used...

Of course, the present f 0,95 is the best, but a good Noctilux f1 (the only alternative... old Noctilux f 1,2 is, practically, only a valuable collectible... and very hard to find, too) can be bought at around 1/3 more than a new Summilux asph... and so is not so insane to think at this intriguing alternative.

 

But, at the same time, for about the same amount one can buy also the Summilux asph AND a Voigtlander Nokton 1,1 (both new)... personally, having (for myself) strong doubts about my possibility to master adequately a Noctilux f1, I'd follow this path... using time to time the Nokton thinking that, after all, it hasn't destructed my budget.

 

But, then again, frankly speaking, having a Noctilux is appealing and pleasant in itself... and this is all another matter.

Edited December 9, 2013 by luigi bertolotti

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[Gerard]

Before you think about upgrading; consider carefully what an 'upgrade' would actually mean to you.

 

Want a lens that's faster and sharper? Consider the Summilux 1.4.

 

Want a lens that's smaller and lighter? Consider the Elmar-M.

 

Want a lens that renders a dreamy bokeh when wide open and screw the weight penalty? Consider the 75 Summilux.

 

The Noctilux is what it is. It has legendary status, but that does not make it the lens we should all aspire an upgrade to.

 

Hell... I don't even have a 50.

 

;-)

[Paul J]

Well at the risk of sounding like a broken record and a leica salesman I would say get the 0.95 if you are considering it and don't look back. You've tried it and you like it so go for it. If you have the money to spend on the 0.95 then I highly recommend it from personal experience.

 

To me, it's the best lens in the world, wide open and stopped down it's incredible too. If you don't mind the size and weight, I don't even notice it, then do it. Upgrade. It's my every day lens for work and personal.

 

I actually very much like the f1 Noctilux for it's Mandler rendering. I will most likely own it some day as well as the 0.95. So try that one out too. It's not as sharp and has lower contrast wide open but the rendering is different and very beautiful, IMO.

 

Even if you only use it wide open once and year and get a picture that makes you happy, then it is worth it IMO. I don't get this whole "you spent that much money on it you have to use it wide open all the time" point of view. It's a lens which offers so much more than standard but you don't have to use it that way all the time. 2.8 - 11 is just incredible. The fact you CAN shoot at 0.95 is what makes the difference and being able to when it suits makes the admission price worthwhile.

 

Do it!

[Herr Barnack]

...I actually very much like the f1 Noctilux for it's Mandler rendering. I will most likely own it some day as well as the 0.95. So try that one out too. It's not as sharp and has lower contrast wide open but the rendering is different and very beautiful, IMO...

 

It depends on what fingerprint you like; the pre-ASPH f/1.0 Noctilux is more artistic in its fingerprint. It has a much nicer bokeh [iMHO] than the f/0.95 ASPH.

 

The f/0.95 Noctilux is alot sharper than the f/1.0 and has a more technical or clinical fingerprint. Apologies to 0.95 Noctilux owners, but I don't care much for the bokeh that your lens produces. The f/1.0 lens is not as sharp - but it is by no means a "mushy" lens IMHO.

 

Also - the f/1.0 has noticable exposure vignetting in the corners until f/4; between f/1.0 and f/4, the vignetting decreases the more you stop down. for night shots, this is not an issue as the vignetting is not visible in most night shots; for daytime shooting, some people like the vignetted look, present company included.

 

In a nutshell, if you like an artistic rendering, choose the f/1.0 Noctilux. If you prefer a more technical look, get the f/0.95 ASPH.

 

If you are financially blessed and can't decide, get one of each.

[rirakuma]

The older one has a more classic rendering, the newer one renders like a 50 lux asph. In some scenes they may be similar but you will definitely get a feel of the different character if you use them extensively. I personally went for the v4 because its cheaper and I wanted a classic rendering rather than a modern one but there have been plenty of times where I wish my noct could be "sharper" wide open. If you get the newest one you won't have that issue. Best of luck!

[junah1]

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Based on the fact there are four relatively new 0.95's for sale on this forums "Buy and sell" section, it is obviously not the lens for everyone and sometimes the thought of owning it is better than the reality?

I have one and enjoy using it, but I prefer a smaller, lighter lens most of the time.

[rirakuma]

I agree with you junah but at the same time if you're lusting that noctilux look there's really no other alternative

[Bill W]

I owned the Noctilux f1 for a year or so and sold it. Wished I had not but needed the money for something else. Five years later I had the money to buy a .95 and now I am happy again. The .95 seems like an easier Noctilux to navigate if that makes sense. I own two other 50's as well and will not sell any of them.

[tobey bilek]

F1.0 is not the the sharpest lens in the world wide open and it has focus shift as you stop down . If you correct for the shift, it is sharp as a Summicron.

 

The .95 should be better.

 

Considering weight and size, I like the 50 1.4 asph., not the previous one which I do not believe is even close in performance.

[farnz]

I convinced myself for 5 years that I didn't need a Noctilux because it was only a stop faster than my beloved 50 Summilux asph, was heavy in comparison, and I'd seen a picture with swirly bokeh that I really didn't take to. I believed that the Noctilux was a 'trophy' or 'look at me' lens, which doesn't appeal to me.

 

Then I saw some wonderful pictures produced by forum members with the f1 Noctilux, Erl and Jono Slack in particular, and I was smitten by the control of focus, the rich pastel shades, the way it drinks the darkness, its amazing resistance to flare even with spectral highlights in the frame, and the 'old world' look produced by its vignetting.

 

I traded my MP, my M8 and my 28 Summicron for a f1 v4 and it's been my favourite lens ever since. I simply cannot produce pictures that I produce with the Noctilux with any other lens, simple as that (and I've tried a few). I still love my Sonnars and my 50 Summilux asph but the Noctilux is the first on the camera and first out of the door.

 

Yes, it takes a little time to learn to regularly hit focus wide open and an accurate rangefinder is essential but once you start to nail shots the magic starts to show through. It's true that it suffers from focus shift and vignetting and is not as bitingly sharp as a 50 Summilux asph but if you can tame those or use them to advantage then imo there is no other lens that I would rather have.

 

Pete.

[01af]

I convinced myself for 5 years that I didn't need a Noctilux because it was only a stop faster than my beloved Summilux-M 50 Asph, was heavy in comparison, and I'd seen a picture with swirly bokeh that I really didn't take to. I believed that the Noctilux was a 'trophy' or 'look at me' lens, which doesn't appeal to me.

Uh oh. Same here—except I resisted the Noctilux's siren call for two years only, not five, before I surrendered ...

 

No regrets.

[tmldds]

I convinced myself for 5 years that I didn't need a Noctilux because it was only a stop faster than my beloved 50 Summilux asph, was heavy in comparison, and I'd seen a picture with swirly bokeh that I really didn't take to. I believed that the Noctilux was a 'trophy' or 'look at me' lens, which doesn't appeal to me.

 

Then I saw some wonderful pictures produced by forum members with the f1 Noctilux, Erl and Jono Slack in particular, and I was smitten by the control of focus, the rich pastel shades, the way it drinks the darkness, its amazing resistance to flare even with spectral highlights in the frame, and the 'old world' look produced by its vignetting.

 

I traded my MP, my M8 and my 28 Summicron for a f1 v4 and it's been my favourite lens ever since. I simply cannot produce pictures that I produce with the Noctilux with any other lens, simple as that (and I've tried a few). I still love my Sonnars and my 50 Summilux asph but the Noctilux is the first on the camera and first out of the door.

 

Yes, it takes a little time to learn to regularly hit focus wide open and an accurate rangefinder is essential but once you start to nail shots the magic starts to show through. It's true that it suffers from focus shift and vignetting and is not as bitingly sharp as a 50 Summilux asph but if you can tame those or use them to advantage then imo there is no other lens that I would rather have.

 

Pete.

 

I hardly use my Lux asph. The F/1 Nocti is on my MM most of the time. I do not find the weight objectionable. Just make sure you get some ND filters so that you can shoot wide-opened during the day if you desire.

[satijntje]

Same here,

 

since I own the 1.0 E60 Noctilux (the most recent one with the square hood), my 50mm ASPH Summilux is collecting dust:D

 

I will put it up for sale soon.

 

The size and the weight is not a problem for me, only some 200 gramms difference, and the size in depth is about the same.

 

A fantastic lens, that I would not change agains a 0.95!

 

John

 

p.s. it was Erl that convinced me to buy the Nocti at the One Challence shoot in Wetzlar.......

Edited December 13, 2013 by satijntje

[Jager]

I own both the f1 and f0.95 Nocts. Between the two, I slightly prefer the 0.95 - mostly because its lack of meaningful focus shift makes it a more versatile lens. But both are extraordinary lenses. Both urge you to use them wide open, more for the unique signature and palette they provide than for the speed. But the extra speed is certainly not to be dismissed. I rarely have anything else on the front of my camera when doing nighttime street photography.

 

Both give you lovely, gentle magic.

[satijntje]

It seems that there is a significant sales on second hand Nocti's going on here in the classifieds section.Never have seen so many Nocti's on sale as now!

 

But I will stay with mine 1.0 E60, as it's smaller and lighter as the 0.95, and of course it has a better price tag:D:D:D

 

John

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

I have quite a few fast 50's including the 50/1.4 ASPH and the Noct 0.95 but the rendering of the Noct f1 v4 is something special

 

The way it transitions from subjects in focus to out of focus is the smoothest you will ever come across

 

It's extremely flare resistant and stopped down, delivers razor sharp images

 

It's one of those lenses where you get an artist's paint brush and sharp surgical blade combined in one lens

 

Mandler Magic

 

Some examples from my work with this lens, on my M9:

 

1.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20121/2221_L1023097_1.jpg (straight out of camera)

 

2.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20121/2221_L1023504_1.jpg (example of the famous Noct f1 swirly bokeh)

 

3.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20121/2221_L1023628_1.jpg (nice 3D pop when stopped down to f1.4)

 

4.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20121/2221_L1023553EditEdit_1.jpg (the f1 LOVES black and white. Thanks to the field curvature, you get some interesting effects as well)

 

5.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20124/2221_L1024124_1.jpg (Landscapes at f5.6? Bring it on!)

 

6.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20124/2221_L1024427_1.jpg (Yes it has a very long focus throw but if you master the lens, you can pull off some stunning images)

 

7.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20124/2221_L1024635_1.jpg (Heavy corner vignetting but adds to the mood and directs attention to mid-frame. Works for my taste)

 

8.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20124/2221_Noctilux_Better_Earth_1.jpg (Noctilux f1 ... Helping Nature look better since 1976)

 

9.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20125/2221_7198557252_52169dc75f_o_1.jpg (Noctilux f1 ... Helping Nature look better since 1976)

 

10.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20128/2221_L1028082_2_1.jpg (Street Photography? Yes we can)

 

11.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201210/2221_L1033906_1_1.jpg (straight out of the camera. Gorgeous tonal range)

 

12.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201210/2221_L1033943_1.jpg (smoooooth bokeh. In front of the subject as well as behind)

 

13.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201210/2221_L1035768Edit2_1.jpg (depending on the background object separation from your subject, you get a nice "pop" in your images and the swirly bokeh adds to the effect)

 

14.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1037374Edit_1.jpg (it is front heavy on my M9 but not as badly as the 0.95)

 

15.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1037400_1.jpg (if you plan your shot, the long focus throw is not an issue for moving subjects)

 

16.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1037442_1.jpg (Contre-Jour? Avec Plaisir, Merci! the colors are rich and the tonal range is very good

 

16.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1037406Edit_1.jpg (off centre composition at f1? Not a problem)

 

17.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1033703Edit2_1.jpg (because this lens has no ASPH. surfaces, there is no issue of double edges which can be terrible if people are clearly visible as part of the bokeh)

 

18.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1033873Edit_1.jpg (smooooooth bokeh which you don't have in the 0.95)

 

19.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1034400Edit_1.jpg (of course, it does portraits better than most lenses)

 

20.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1037769Edit_1.jpg (the ability to retain contrast and illumination when shot against light should not be downplayed)

 

21.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1037778Edit_1.jpg (swirly twirly crazy dream)

 

22.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1037753_1.jpg (you can almost touch the subject ... The in focus/out of focus transition is really the closest I have seen to human vision)

 

23.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1030808Edit_1.jpg (it is but of course the low light champion ... Working with the CCD sensor of the M9, gives you film like results with the digital tweakability and convenience)

 

24.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1030821Edit_1.jpg (minimalist perfection. I added the colored edges in post processing)

 

25.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1031021Edit_1.jpg (it's true. The Noctilux f1 makes you shoot flowers and foliage and pets)

 

26.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1031091Edit2_1.jpg (it's true. The Noctilux f1 makes you shoot flowers and foliage and pets)

 

27.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_BigAperture_airport_1.jpg (making ordinary scenes extraordinary)

 

28.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20131/2221_L1039361_1.jpg (flattering rendering and fantastic low light capability. When compared to my Nokton f1.1 the Noctilux sucks in way more light. I wonder what the actual T-stop of the Noctilux f1 is)

 

29.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20131/2221_L1039811Edit_1.jpg (Noctilux f1 v4 ... Recommended for sex, drugs and rock n roll)

 

30.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20131/2221_L1039768Edit_1.jpg (Noctilux f1 v4 ... Recommended for sex, drugs and rock n roll)

 

More of my work with the Noctilux f1 v4 here -> http://forum.mflenses.com/leica-noctilux-50mm-f1-t55254.html

 

Hope that was useful

 

Cheers,

Hari

Edited December 15, 2013 by TheGodParticle

[algrove]

I can echo what many others describe. It seems my 50 lux collects dust since I either use the f1 or the APO50 on my MM. I have the 0.95 collecting dust as I feel I must first try to better conquer the f1 right now.

 

I must say I will now start trying to use it on the M with EVF since that is probably one of the best ways to combat focus shift IMHO.

 

This image is maybe 20% of the total image as I did not "see" this during shooting.

 

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[sm23221]

Hari;

 

Thank you for that terrific post!

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[tony740607]

Hi,

 

Thanks for this great explanation and your nice pictures. Now I am not afraid anymore of looking into a f1 anymore (v4).

 

// Tony Johansson

 

I have quite a few fast 50's including the 50/1.4 ASPH and the Noct 0.95 but the rendering of the Noct f1 v4 is something special

 

The way it transitions from subjects in focus to out of focus is the smoothest you will ever come across

 

It's extremely flare resistant and stopped down, delivers razor sharp images

 

It's one of those lenses where you get an artist's paint brush and sharp surgical blade combined in one lens

 

Mandler Magic

 

Some examples from my work with this lens, on my M9:

 

1.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20121/2221_L1023097_1.jpg (straight out of camera)

 

2.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20121/2221_L1023504_1.jpg (example of the famous Noct f1 swirly bokeh)

 

3.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20121/2221_L1023628_1.jpg (nice 3D pop when stopped down to f1.4)

 

4.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20121/2221_L1023553EditEdit_1.jpg (the f1 LOVES black and white. Thanks to the field curvature, you get some interesting effects as well)

 

5.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20124/2221_L1024124_1.jpg (Landscapes at f5.6? Bring it on!)

 

6.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20124/2221_L1024427_1.jpg (Yes it has a very long focus throw but if you master the lens, you can pull off some stunning images)

 

7.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20124/2221_L1024635_1.jpg (Heavy corner vignetting but adds to the mood and directs attention to mid-frame. Works for my taste)

 

8.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20124/2221_Noctilux_Better_Earth_1.jpg (Noctilux f1 ... Helping Nature look better since 1976)

 

9.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20125/2221_7198557252_52169dc75f_o_1.jpg (Noctilux f1 ... Helping Nature look better since 1976)

 

10.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20128/2221_L1028082_2_1.jpg (Street Photography? Yes we can)

 

11.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201210/2221_L1033906_1_1.jpg (straight out of the camera. Gorgeous tonal range)

 

12.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201210/2221_L1033943_1.jpg (smoooooth bokeh. In front of the subject as well as behind)

 

13.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201210/2221_L1035768Edit2_1.jpg (depending on the background object separation from your subject, you get a nice "pop" in your images and the swirly bokeh adds to the effect)

 

14.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1037374Edit_1.jpg (it is front heavy on my M9 but not as badly as the 0.95)

 

15.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1037400_1.jpg (if you plan your shot, the long focus throw is not an issue for moving subjects)

 

16.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1037442_1.jpg (Contre-Jour? Avec Plaisir, Merci! the colors are rich and the tonal range is very good

 

16.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1037406Edit_1.jpg (off centre composition at f1? Not a problem)

 

17.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1033703Edit2_1.jpg (because this lens has no ASPH. surfaces, there is no issue of double edges which can be terrible if people are clearly visible as part of the bokeh)

 

18.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1033873Edit_1.jpg (smooooooth bokeh which you don't have in the 0.95)

 

19.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1034400Edit_1.jpg (of course, it does portraits better than most lenses)

 

20.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1037769Edit_1.jpg (the ability to retain contrast and illumination when shot against light should not be downplayed)

 

21.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1037778Edit_1.jpg (swirly twirly crazy dream)

 

22.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1037753_1.jpg (you can almost touch the subject ... The in focus/out of focus transition is really the closest I have seen to human vision)

 

23.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1030808Edit_1.jpg (it is but of course the low light champion ... Working with the CCD sensor of the M9, gives you film like results with the digital tweakability and convenience)

 

24.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1030821Edit_1.jpg (minimalist perfection. I added the colored edges in post processing)

 

25.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1031021Edit_1.jpg (it's true. The Noctilux f1 makes you shoot flowers and foliage and pets)

 

26.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_L1031091Edit2_1.jpg (it's true. The Noctilux f1 makes you shoot flowers and foliage and pets)

 

27.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201212/2221_BigAperture_airport_1.jpg (making ordinary scenes extraordinary)

 

28.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20131/2221_L1039361_1.jpg (flattering rendering and fantastic low light capability. When compared to my Nokton f1.1 the Noctilux sucks in way more light. I wonder what the actual T-stop of the Noctilux f1 is)

 

29.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20131/2221_L1039811Edit_1.jpg (Noctilux f1 v4 ... Recommended for sex, drugs and rock n roll)

 

30.http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20131/2221_L1039768Edit_1.jpg (Noctilux f1 v4 ... Recommended for sex, drugs and rock n roll)

 

More of my work with the Noctilux f1 v4 here -> Leica Noctilux 50mm f1

 

Hope that was useful

 

Cheers,

Hari