Shootist Posted October 2, 2008 Author Share #81 Posted October 2, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks for the explanation. There are only two output signal lines, representing the left and right hand sides of the imaging array. It's unlikely* that any fault outside of the sensor could cause a line. A fault would affect all pixels in the half of the image with which it was associated. For example people have had return cameras for adjustment where one half of the image was different in some way to the other half. A stuck pixel or one with poor charge transfer efficiency will cause a vertical line one pixel wide to occur upstream of the fault. If there is a region of poor transfer efficiency at the bottom of the array the affected columns would to a varying degree give rise to a vertical line more than one pixel wide. unlikely* .... there is the possibility that signal conditioning specific to each individual sensor is being done externally - I doubt the system is that sophisticated though. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 Hi Shootist, Take a look here Oh Darn a line. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
chris_tribble Posted October 3, 2008 Share #82 Posted October 3, 2008 Just an update on this - my M8 with the darn line problem is now with Leica in Solms. They inform me that they are doing the following (within the warranty): replace CCD sensor adjustment of shutter times adjust exposure meter adjust range finder clean range finder adjustment of all parts While it's with them M8 Upgr. shutter, saphirglass and mask. It looks like that with the warranty extension that comes with the upgrade I'm getting what's in effect a new camera! The key electronic and optical parts are either replaced or re-calibrated (interestinf that the exposure meter gets attention) and the major moving part (the shutter) is replaced. Shame about the Discrete Mode being there, but I'm hoping for a long and healthy life after this work... keeping fingers crossed though. Good luck to those others in the pipeline. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piero Posted October 3, 2008 Share #83 Posted October 3, 2008 I am in a pipeline too, but don't know what they will do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted October 3, 2008 Share #84 Posted October 3, 2008 Delighted for you Chris, I'm still awaiting a response form Leica to emails that were sent on Monday and Thursday last regarding my camera. What contact method did you use?, I tried m8.support@leica-camera.com and cc'd cs@leica-camera.com. Seems strange they didn't reply to either the first or 2nd email. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 3, 2008 Share #85 Posted October 3, 2008 What contact method did you use?, I tried m8.support@leica-camera.com and cc'd cs@leica-camera.com. Seems strange they didn't reply to either the first or 2nd email. I phoned after a similar frustration - my M8 was with them this Monday according to DHL and I'd asked for confirmation + to sort out what was happening with the upgrade (decided to go for the Full Monty as the price difference between that and bits and bobs was so small...) I used: +49 6442 208 189 - the url for the Solms Service people is: Leica Camera AG - Service - headquarters germany They were very helpful and then pushed things forward quickly. I think there must be a lot of action there at the moment. Hope this helps.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_w Posted October 4, 2008 Share #86 Posted October 4, 2008 I have a chrome Leica M8 (April 2007) with no line problems. However, after reading through this thread I am not sure it will stay that way for me or the many other owners who do not have problems at the moment. I am not sure what percentage of M8 owners participate in this forum but the percentage of active respondents who have problems is worrying because it indicates the problem could be widespread and simply not recognised. Chris, you mentioned copying the thread to Leica support for comment. Were you able to do that? It seems like a statement from Leica is in order. Thanks Robert Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 4, 2008 Share #87 Posted October 4, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I would like to track my M8 as well, which at Solms for upgrade and sorting out various electronic glitches. Unfortunately, their tracking only works on Internet Explorer 6. As I am Mac and only have Safari/Firefox/Opera that does not work. All Windows using members of my family have upgraded to IE7. This is something that Leica should have sorted last year when they upgraded the website. At the rough poll we did last year, over 50% of M8 users were also Mac users. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 4, 2008 Share #88 Posted October 4, 2008 Wilson - strange. Works fine in Firefox on a PC. Are you sure that this problem is general rather than particular to your setup - odd that it should be a Mac thing ... Security settings somewhere? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olsen Posted October 4, 2008 Share #89 Posted October 4, 2008 I bought my black M8 in April 2007 in Singapore with serial no. 31094xxx. It worked flawlessly up until - about Christmas of 2007 when this line appeared right in the middle of the picture, from bottom up. Most obvious on high ISO, but it got worse. I sent it to Solms through the Norwegian importer/dealer which has been most helpful despite that my camera was not bought here. This 'line' has been an issue with M8s from the very beginning. I have no belief that it is up grade related, but suspect it could be more temperature related. - If related to anything at all... I was never explained what was done with the camera. Sending it to Solms was to take 6 to 7 weeks, but I had it back in less than 5. I know for a fact that out of four M8 I know are owned by Norwegians, three have been to Solms for fixing of 'burning lines'. I am not currently updated on the forth. This burning line problem is obviously wide spread. What I am concerned with is if it is a permanent fix or if it is a problem that will occure over and over again. All the three M8 I know that has been to Solms, the problem seems to be solved permanently. I think Leica should adress this problem, which we - their customers, know is wide spread, by informing us about 'what causes is' and what Leica can do with it, and if it is highly probable that the fix is permanent or not. Some kind of 'service e-mail on the red line issue' is what we should expect from Leica. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piero Posted October 4, 2008 Share #90 Posted October 4, 2008 This darn line issue has been known for more than a year, apparently. How come there are M8 on shop shelves that still suffer the problem? useless to talk about it anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 4, 2008 Share #91 Posted October 4, 2008 Wilson - strange. Works fine in Firefox on a PC. Are you sure that this problem is general rather than particular to your setup - odd that it should be a Mac thing ... Security settings somewhere? Chris, Unlike last year, on Mac/Firefox, the Repair Tracking window with the fill in boxes comes up but if I enter my serial number and press enter, it just says "done" on the status line at the bottom without showing any tracking information. I know the camera arrived in Solms last week from the courier tracking. Maybe with the volume of M8's arriving for upgrades, they are getting behind with entry onto the system. I know this happened with lenses in 2007. I just hope that their indicated turn around time of a completion and return by the end of October is achieved, as I need my M8 body back by the beginning of November. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 4, 2008 Share #92 Posted October 4, 2008 What I am concerned with is if it is a permanent fix or if it is a problem that will occure over and over again. All the three M8 I know that has been to Solms, the problem seems to be solved permanently. I think Leica should adress this problem, which we - their customers, know is wide spread, by informing us about 'what causes is' and what Leica can do with it, and if it is highly probable that the fix is permanent or not. Some kind of 'service e-mail on the red line issue' is what we should expect from Leica. In the estimate I got from Leica re the repair, they actually say replace the CMOS sensor. It looks as if it was a fault in earlier batches? So far, no problems with my April 2008 body... I just hope that their indicated turn around time of a completion and return by the end of October is achieved, as I need my M8 body back by the beginning of November. Wilson - ouch! Hope it gets there... the tracking on mine indicates that it was a) received and in the system... beyond that, I'm waiting and seeing + am glad I have the second later body ... Best Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piero Posted October 4, 2008 Share #93 Posted October 4, 2008 ... the CMOS sensor. It looks as if it was a fault in earlier batches... I thought it was a CCD... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted October 5, 2008 Share #94 Posted October 5, 2008 I have the problem too, and didn't notice it before FW2.0. I'm sure the higher ISOs that Auto ISO have led me into are responsible for me seeing it only now. Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piero Posted October 5, 2008 Share #95 Posted October 5, 2008 Chris when did you buy yours? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 5, 2008 Share #96 Posted October 5, 2008 I thought it was a CCD... Sorry - my mistake. The precise list of things they're replacing / checking in the camera is: replace CCD sensor adjustment of shutter times adjust exposure meter adjust range finder clean range finder adjustment of all parts Chriswhen did you buy yours? I bought the camera with the line problem in the UK in April 2007. The number is 3111815. I have the problem too, and didn't notice it before FW2.0. I'm sure the higher ISOs that Auto ISO have led me into are responsible for me seeing it only now. My experience too - what seems to happen to a lot of us is that we don't bother with high ISO much, FW 2.0 comes along and we play with Auto ISO and we notice the line when we chimp the results. We then go back and look at earlier work and realise that the line's been there even in lower ISO shots but we've just not noticed it. I reckon it's in all M8 owners interest to check this - especially if your camera's getting near to the end of warranty!. All you need to do is to try some shots at 1250 or 2500. If you've got the line you'll notice it, if not, then you're smiling... Best Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piero Posted October 5, 2008 Share #97 Posted October 5, 2008 mine is 3200XXX, had it in my hands less then a week. comparing files made with mine and firmware 2_000 and the one made with the backup M8 series 3100xxx with same firmware, the files made with latter camera seem harsher, and some green ghost here and there... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theodor Heinrichsohn Posted October 5, 2008 Share #98 Posted October 5, 2008 been there even in lower ISO shots but we've just not noticed it. I reckon it's in all M8 owners interest to check this - especially if your camera's getting near to the end of warranty!. All you need to do is to try some shots at 1250 or 2500. If you've got the line you'll notice it, if not, then you're smiling... I have been very worried since reading this thread! Tried both my M8's (firmware 2.0) at ISO 2500, chimped, no line - sigh of relief- especially as we are off to Japan for 14 days later this week Tokyo and Kyoto/Nara). Black #3105... and chrome # 3197.... Thanks for this informative thread. Teddy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted October 5, 2008 Share #99 Posted October 5, 2008 Chriswhen did you buy yours? Don't know if I'm the Chris you meant, but it was in December 06 (lucky I didn't have the green blobs too!) BTW, Bill Boyle, who invented the CCD, drives around in a Mini with the personalised number plate "CCD" - the car being paid for by his prize money from the U.S. National Academy of Engineering. Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 5, 2008 Share #100 Posted October 5, 2008 mine is 3200XXX, had it in my hands less then a week.comparing files made with mine and firmware 2_000 and the one made with the backup M8 series 3100xxx with same firmware, the files made with latter camera seem harsher, and some green ghost here and there... There seems to be a growing body of evidence that there have been improvements in the sensor itself between different generations of the M8.1. I don't know enough about these matters - but may Mark Norton or some of the others on this forum with technical knowledge can comment? It certainly makes sense if Leica / Kodak have identified a fault, they'll have modified something in the sensor chip to eradicate? Anyone else have thoughts on this? Most important for owners will be to track back to when the change came in. My body with the faulty sensor was an April 2007 purchase, but it could have been made any time before that... My current and OK body was bought in April 2008. This displays no problems... I have been very worried since reading this thread! Tried both my M8's (firmware 2.0) at ISO 2500, chimped, no line - sigh of relief- especially as we are off to Japan for 14 days later this week Tokyo and Kyoto/Nara) Glad you're OK! Best Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.