Oh Darn a line

[chris_tribble]

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I wonder if these are showing up because with the new firmware people are trying higher iso's than they normally use. I know I almost never shoot above 640 and I can't try anything higher right now as mine died putting in the new firmware.

 

That's my theory -- it wasn't until I started checking Auto ISO that this issue came out - up until then I could literally count the number of images I'd shot at 2500 on the fingers of one hand.

[Eoin]

I just want to correct my comment that this line has appeared since the 2.0 FW update, I have found evidence of the line just prior to the time of my update. I can't say the the FW update has made it more noticeable, however it is true to say that while trying the auto ISO in dimly lit conditions I noticed the re-appearance of a purple line which begins at the lower LHS of the frame moving up half the frame. It only seems to occur if there is shadow or dark colours in the area.

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[jaapv]

You have gotten me worried enough to take a 2500 shot of my lenscap, Chris. Glad to say no problem on my Jan 2007 camera. Fortunately Leica has express service now, so you should get your camera back soon, if you send it to Solms directly.

[ArtZ]

C'mon guys, stop complaining about darn lines on your pictures. It's just a new artistic concept developed by Leica. Damm it! I'm jealous... I wish my M8s had this feature

 

:D

[chris_tribble]

I just want to correct my comment that this line has appeared since the 2.0 FW update, I have found evidence of the line just prior to the time of my update. I can't say the the FW update has made it more noticeable, however it is true to say that while trying the auto ISO in dimly lit conditions I noticed the re-appearance of a purple line which begins at the lower LHS of the frame moving up half the frame. It only seems to occur if there is shadow or dark colours in the area.

 

Eoin - exactly my experience...

Jaap - I need to be down in London to put together my original receipt + warranty documents. Then it's off to Solms - at least this is the first time I've needed to do this!

[Shootist]

That's my theory -- it wasn't until I started checking Auto ISO that this issue came out - up until then I could literally count the number of images I'd shot at 2500 on the fingers of one hand.

The camera I sent back yesterday was NEW, a replacement Leica NJ sent me, on Friday 09/19/2008.

I took 2 shots with it @ ISO 2500 with the old firmware just before I updated it to the V2 firmware. When looking at those 2 shot I took with firmware 1.201 I can see the line. I also took 2 shots of the exact same subject right after the firmware update and the line is in all of the shots, in the same place.

But the line in those 4 images is not a blue line running to the bottom of the image. My subject was my book cases which are black and it was dark around them. The line that shows up in those images is a darker black line running from near the middle up to the top of the image.

So it's not the new firmware that is doing this.

I've all shot all the same subject with my chrome M8, after updating it to 2.0, and there is NO line anywhere in any images.

[Shootist]

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Called Leica NJ today, actually I called yesterday and they said the camera had just been checked in and to call back today.

This camera was a replacement for one they could not fix the rangefinder on. I received it Sept 19th. I notice the line on Saturday morning. Sent it back on Wednesday Sept 24 and UPS delivered it to Leica NJ 9:36 AM Friday Sept 26. I had talked to Sarah Mayville about it and she said to address it to her with big Attn Sarah Mayville lettering all around the box, which I did.

Both yesterday and to day I could not contact Sarah and Colleen answered her extension.

Asking what was going to happen I was told the CCD is going to be replaced and I will have the camera back the end of October. I said WHAT,I need it before that.

Supposedly the camera was never delivered to Sarah Mayville and just went through the normal channels. I then stated that I had spoken to, insert top level management name here, about my original black M8 and this camera was a replacement for that one and that I had only had it 5 day before it was returned for the line problem.

All I want is a M8 that works.

 

This is becoming to much work for a camera.

[marknorton]

I agree the poor service is down to Leica, but shouldn't Kodak be getting their own quality control together?

[gravastar]

I agree the poor service is down to Leica, but shouldn't Kodak be getting their own quality control together?

I'm beginning to have a bad feeling about this. I'm still using a camera that has a line at ISO 1250 and above. I haven't sent it in because it was a replacement for one with a worse line problem and I don't want to be without the camera.

 

I wonder if Leica's acceptance spec to Kodak tolerates sensors with lines, otherwise I don't understand how they can miss seeing them at final test. It could be a cost trade off for them and they only replace the sensor if a customer complains.

 

 

Bob.

[Shootist]

Could be.

I'll be calling tomorrow to get a update on the return date and if that does not fit I will be making a second call to the top level.

[caparobertsan]

yep kodak is responsible for all the fault including back focusing. ALL m8 owner should get free ccd update. mine had same problem.

[piero]

One question guys:

 

has someone been told by a Leica representative that the fault is in the sensor?

 

I have been told that the problem lies in one processor analising the light information captured by the sensor.

[Shootist]

One question guys:

 

has someone been told by a Leica representative that the fault is in the sensor?

 

I have been told that the problem lies in one processor analising the light information captured by the sensor.

 

I was told they are replacing the CCD. Why would they do that if it was just a circut board?

In my camera there was a very bright speck right on the line, but it was anly visible when viewing the images on the cameras LCD screen.

I suspect the camera I got had a dead, or group of dead, pixel/s.

[piero]

we have been told different things...

who knows what is the truth...

but the darn line is a pain in the neck.

If the pixels were dead the line would be of the same color in its journey from one side to the other. Instead, in my case, is dark when in dark areas and light in light areas. I mean that the color changes within same frame, from one tone to the other. And on my M8 has gotten more evident when latest firmware has been installed.

[Mauribix]

Just for the record:

my repair report pointed out a problem in the board(it came back with the camera).

An email received by Leica customer care in July reported the same explanation.

[Mauribix]

probably the problem, as been said few times, is lyin' in the circuit (or welding) between the board and the sensor.

 

ciao!

[Shootist]

The line does not run side to side. It does run up and down. the blue part of it stops just above center of the image. If the blue line doesn't show up then there is a black line from just above center to the top of the image. Harder to pick out the black line then the blue but they are in the same place right to left.

[piero]

I meant to say side to side in the line length. the line runs from bottom of frame toward the center 2 thirds I'd say.

[gravastar]

I find it hard to believe that the line problem is due to a circuit board or a connection and not the sensor - unless what Leica mean is the only way to change the sensor is to replace the circuit board on which it is mounted.

 

The KAF10500 sensor transfers the image data from the 3970 x 2646 pixel array to two serial outputs in two separate steps. First all horizontal rows of pixel information from the sensor array are moved vertically downward by one pixel. This results in each half of the bottom most row being transfered into two storage registers. One for the left hand side of the array, the other for the right hand side. These registers are then read out in a horizontal direction, left and right, via two output amplifiers. This two step process is then repeated until the complete array has been read out. See the diagram from the Kodak data sheet attached.

 

There are only two output signal lines, representing the left and right hand sides of the imaging array. It's unlikely* that any fault outside of the sensor could cause a line. A fault would affect all pixels in the half of the image with which it was associated. For example people have had return cameras for adjustment where one half of the image was different in some way to the other half.

 

A stuck pixel or one with poor charge transfer efficiency will cause a vertical line one pixel wide to occur upstream of the fault. If there is a region of poor transfer efficiency at the bottom of the array the affected columns would to a varying degree give rise to a vertical line more than one pixel wide.

 

unlikely* .... there is the possibility that signal conditioning specific to each individual sensor is being done externally - I doubt the system is that sophisticated though.

 

Bob.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[piero]

why is this noticeable only at ISO above 160?