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russell

This is really crazy! New 6bit coding price 433€ (not even the 169€ from before)

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This has gone stupid.

Look at this bill. I sent in my 50mm Summilux for 6-bit coding. They want 433 Euros! Not the 169 Euros that the original poster mentioned.

I had been excited about Leica again after the announced upgrade plan, but now I'm seriously thinking of dumping everything. They are raping us on the repair costs.

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Ah, c'mon Russ, it is 140 (plus VAT) for the 6-bit coding, as indicated on your invoice. The rest is for checking and repairing your Summilux. Whether that was in line with your instructions is another matter.

 

Andy

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Here's the bit for the Noctilux. I've left off the VAT part since it went on to the next page...

 

Again, all this lens needs is 6-bit (and a few mm of backfocus adjustment)

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Wizard, sorry but if you look at the bill, the 6-bit coding shows up in the labour costs as well. And the only reason for a focus/optical check is needed on the f1.4 would be because they add the 6-bit mount which might throw something off.

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Here's the bit for the Noctilux. I've left off the VAT part since it went on to the next page...

 

Again, all this lens needs is 6-bit (and a few mm of backfocus adjustment)

Russell,

 

You haven't just had six-bit coding done though, have you. Both invoices list 'optical adjustment for M8' and 'adjust focusing ring' etc, and in your post on the other thread you stated that you had sent your M8 in together with the lenses. You also stated above that the Noctilux needed adjustment for back focus.

 

You can't expect to get other work thrown in for free for just the price of the six-bit coding. A garage working on your car would invoice in the same way.

Whether the price is reasonable, or if you expected any of the work to be done under warranty is another matter of course.

 

I sympathise with you over the expensive bill, but it's always this way with Leica.

 

Steve

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Have you actually been charged yet? The second document looks like an estimate for repair work "we suggest the following measures" rather than an invoice. If so, and you don't want the work done, tell them that you don't want the repair to be done, only the coding.

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Having sent back a number of lenses for focus adjustment / checking around the time I was having problems with the noctilux, all had this work order detail. One lens needed 6 bit coding and the detail was exactly the same on the works order except for the price.

 

However my lenses were new or still under warranty even the one needing 6bit coding and I was only charged the €90 (at the time). I can understand your shock at the price but if the lenses are old (out of warranty) and you have requested calibration to your M8 well then I would expect some charge for the service.

 

That being said, it would suggest that there is no adjustment done to the lens during the 6bit upgrade other than exchanging the lens mount. You have my sympathy on your unexpected bill, it looks an expensive proposition to have older stuff calibrated to the M8.

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As Steve says: it's a suggestion plus estimate of cost. You do not have to agree. If you only want the coding be done, just let them know. Probably a phone calle could solve things ...

 

Best regards,

Norbert

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I paid for coding and cleaning , adjuusting my Noctilux 250 €.

It wasnt focusing 100% so I sent it to Leica Solms another time, together with my M8 (which I had slightly "de-adjusted" with the Allen key), my 75/1.4 and 35/1.4 after I had written a letter complaining about my focus problems.

Leica adjusted the 3 lenses and my M8 free of charge in 2 weeks.

This was such a good experience that I am now even accepting if I would pay a little bit more for a repair another time.

 

If you send in a lens for coding and also get it cleaned adjusted I fully understand they can not do it for 100 €.

Even Ricoh charged for a repair of the lens unit of my GRD 250€!

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I also fully understand they can not do it for 100 €", but 433 € is extreme.

And to clarify, I did not send the M8 as I said in an earlier post. Why? Because the day I was going to send the whole lot in they announced the upgrade. No need to have work done on the M8 only to have it done again in 6 months.

 

I though as part of the 6-bit coding that Leica would naturally have to recheck the focus. Why? Since by replacing the mount they might introduce errors.

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I've sent Leica and email asking:

 

"I find the estimates to be extreme. 433 Euros seems to be too much just to put 6-bit coding onto a Lens.

 

How much is the estimate if you only do the 6-bit coding and leave the rest out?

Also what happens to the focus adjustment for a 6-bit-coding-only work? Do you warranty against knocking it out of the plane(s) of focus the lens was set to when I sent it in?

Basically I want a 6-bit coding only but want to ensure that the addition doesn’t render the lens out-of-focus or introduce new problems."

 

Let's see if that sheds any light on their new 6-bit coding/repair policies...

 

Also if anybody has a recent estimate from Leica USA let me/us know the price. Perhaps it's cheaper to pay the extra shipping and customs to route it over the USA and then back again?

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1. Yes, at least here in the States, Leica does do a collimation check of the lens before and after putting on the new coded mount, to ensure the state of the lens was not changed in the process.

 

2. I've only had coding done via the "vouchers", so I don't know if something extra is billed with cash coding. But I don't think so.

 

3. Time for a phone call to get clarification?

 

4. IF you specifically asked for service (backfocus adjustment) beyond the basic addition of the coded mount - then a separate charge applies.

 

Buy a new set of tires (or tyres) and you get charged for the tires and the installation. Ask them to "adjust the squeaky brakes while they've got the wheels off" - and the bill will likely be higher, no?

 

The collimation Leica does here is to make sure you get the lens back in precisely the state they received it (plus the mount) - not to change the state of the lens to something more desirable.

 

5. (added) Don't know the coding price ex New Jersey - as I said, I've only used the vouchers. But I am getting (or so the estimate says) a full refurbishing of a very ugly M4-2 (shutter adjustment, frame-spacing adjustment, new light seals around the film gate, replacement sync socket, RF adjustment - and (if Leica and I understood each other) a full recovering with new pseudo-vulcanite) ....for 375 el-cheapo, depreciated US dollars.

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I don't believe they have ever checked the focus in detail other than a quick functional check and external clean after the new mount is on. However could they do otherwise for the price involved?

 

If you have asked them to check and adjust the focussing, that will be extra for a lens out of warranty, and involves much more work.

 

[This is why i want Leica to provide a facility for user lens calibration in a future camera]

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Yes, you have to be prepared for this!. I sent the following for coding and if necessary, focus adjustment. 35mm Summilux ASPH, 50mm Summicron, Noctilux and 75mm Summilux. The total estimate for the work was in excess of $2000 and Germany wouldn't budge on the price. The additional work included mount and lens adjustments. All of the lenses had previously worked OK on film Ms. Leica said the tolerances needed for digital were tighter.

 

My dealer said some people were refusing to pay the additional charges and would only pay for the coding. In those circumstances I believe the lenses are returned coded with a disclaimer notice.

 

Those of you who have had out of warranty lenses adjusted free of charge have been fortunate.

 

Bob.

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Whatever the circumstances leading to this invoice it would still be considered extortionate if it was issued by anybody other than Leica.

 

Yesterday I collected my car from the Main Dealer in Vienna. I can attach the invoice if you wish, but this is the essence of it:

 

60,000km service and annual Government roadworthiness test - 257.83 Euro

Replacement wipers - 24 Euro

Replacement of window motor - 297.57 Euro

Replacement of both front swing-arm assemblies - 342.52

Odds'n'sods' - 25 Euros

 

Total (inc VAT) - 1,133 Euros.

 

I was shocked and horrified! BUT, this is just three times the price of a lens adjustment and coding by Leica. Remember - I am paying for Austrian labour rates, which are not that different to Germany. I have some significant new components in my car and 85 Euros of the total bill was for the fancy engine oil alone!

 

Yet so many forum members persist in defending Leica's blatant abuse of its loyal customer base. I am increasingly irritated. To cap it all, my five year old Nikon P&S packed up recently (dead sensor). I took it to the local agent and they said the repair would be free!!

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220 Euros for a repair to a lens that will involve disassembly, repair, reassembly and calibration doesn't seem extortionate to me.

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Here's the bit for the Noctilux. I've left off the VAT part since it went on to the next page...

 

Again, all this lens needs is 6-bit (and a few mm of backfocus adjustment)

Solms is finally coming clean...the tolerances on the M8 are tighter..translated.....your lenses , that worked fine on film, may not be properly calibrated to the tighter standards necessary with the M8. The have been slow to implement these standards as evidenced by "new" lenses back focusing. Both the Summilux and Noctilux require new mounts for 6 bit coding ...the tolerances are much tighter and the adjustment to the focusing mount is extremely difficult. My experience has been that they frequently require several trips to get right. What seems to be a legitimate complaint is that the M8 was promoted as being capable of using a list of existing lenses....published document on six bit coding....and spending $5-600 to accomplish 6 bit coding is excessive. The situation can be quite different depending on the age and condition of the lens.....I sent in an almost new 39XXXXXX Summilux with an acknowledged back focus problem but otherwise perfect and a beat 27XXXXXXX Noctilux that I have had for 25 years. I Paid $700 for the Noctilux and the standard 6 bit for the Summilux. That seemed fair to me. The only thing you should be careful of is the adjustment to your M8...it takes a few minutes to adjust the rangefinder and sometimes hours to change the focus point on a lens. What do you think they will do to correct your issues? The only way to protect yourself is to ask that you lenses be calibrated to the M8 standard and that you M8 be adjusted to the M8 standard. Hopefully you can check you M8 with a another lens that has been shown to be precise.

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220 Euros for a repair to a lens that will involve disassembly, repair, reassembly and calibration doesn't seem extortionate to me.

 

True to be fair.

 

I guess I'm just swayed by an indeterminate feeling that we're being ripped off. A vague sensation made more acute recently by the clumsy announcement of the perpetual upgrade programme. I really don't think Leica did themselves any favours. A good idea spoiled by a bad presentation and ill-thought out packaging. Even the programme launch photo of an M8 wearing a "Best Before ...' sticker is a foul up. The graphic chosen for the infinity symbol on the label does not look like an infiinty symbol - it looks like an 8! The message is clear - the entire M range was best before the 8. A lot of people would agree with that.

 

We need something to make us feel warm and cuddly about Leica once again. Then maybe this whole forum might get over its currently crotchety mood (me included) and we can all go back to being nice to each other and to Leica too.

 

Rant over.

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