Guest tummydoc Posted January 29, 2008 Share #21 Posted January 29, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) As to the shutterspeed, it seems logical that lowering i would make the camera more silent, How so? The M8's shutter (mine at least) sounds virtually the same at 1/4000 and 1/8000. The bulk of the 'noise' is the re-arming after the shutter fires. If the only way Leica could address that issue was to buy-in a completely different shutter and arming motor assembly and that simply happened to be available with a maximum 1/4000 top speed, then I agree, it sounds quite like typical Leica logic Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 29, 2008 Posted January 29, 2008 Hi Guest tummydoc, Take a look here No M9, Only M8-2. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ndjambrose Posted January 29, 2008 Share #22 Posted January 29, 2008 ...As to the shutterspeed, it seems logical that lowering i would make the camera more silent, so this would be part of creating the long-wished-for "stealth" version.... Is it really the shutter that makes the noise? As far as I can tell, the shutter itself seems relatively quiet. It's the motorised cocking action that needs rethinking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted January 29, 2008 Share #23 Posted January 29, 2008 I wonder if it's possible that Guy's new firmware is just a regular upgrade, but the firmware for the new package would completely redo the menu system, shooting options, etc? I can't see how changing from 8000 to 4000 would make much difference in the noise, and suspect that they could cut the noise in a much cheaper way than re-doing the whole shutter. The noise doesn't have to come down a lot, just a bit. If this is true, perhaps we're going to get a real re-working of the camera. When I had problem with my Kodak Pro SLRn a few years back, Kodak gave me a new sensor plus some other upgrades for, if I remember correctly, $1500. If we got a real, new-technology, cutting edge sensor, like a 1.3 version of the D3 sensor...I'd be first in line. But I can't believe Leica could do that for 1200 euros; not when they charge a hundred euros for a filter. JC Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted January 29, 2008 Share #24 Posted January 29, 2008 My position too... But Shhhhhhh - Quiet would be really nice... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted January 29, 2008 Share #25 Posted January 29, 2008 Is the speed of the shutter blades controlled by a spring or electronically? In other words, if the shutter baldes were moving slower, they may not be able to get a 1/8000th out of the shutter. If this blade speed is just a spring and not software, a new shutter will be needed. Would this also affect the flash sync speed and lower it to 1/125th? Robert Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 29, 2008 Share #26 Posted January 29, 2008 {snipped}Would this also affect the flash sync speed and lower it to 1/125th? Robert Yikes: I hope not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 29, 2008 Share #27 Posted January 29, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) How so? The M8's shutter (mine at least) sounds virtually the same at 1/4000 and 1/8000. The bulk of the 'noise' is the re-arming after the shutter fires. If the only way Leica could address that issue was to buy-in a completely different shutter and arming motor assembly and that simply happened to be available with a maximum 1/4000 top speed, then I agree, it sounds quite like typical Leica logic Because the speed of the blades would be halved. With the current one the speed is geared to the smallest possible slit, considering diffraction, and the "speed"is changed by widening the gap. With a slower shutter the slits would remain the same and the speed of the shutter blades slower, thus lowering the noise. This, incidentally, is the reason modern shutters run vertically, the distance is shorter and the blade speed correspondingly slower, enabling shorter shutter speeds than horizontal shutters if one uses a top speed that would be impossible over the longer distance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 29, 2008 Share #28 Posted January 29, 2008 If this is upgrade is true, consisting of installing drop-in replacement parts into the camera, you'd think they would have included updated frame-lines as well. And a new shutter release. And a new thumb wheel if that's the only way to permanently solve the scrolling. Makes me slightly embarrassed at my "irrational exuberance" of splurging on 3 bodies and I wonder too what they will make of the various mods - leather, rubber bumps, blacked out Leica logos, duct tape ansd so on - and whether they will be quietly restored to Official Specifications... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 29, 2008 Share #29 Posted January 29, 2008 Would this also affect the flash sync speed and lower it to 1/125th? Robert Yes it would, unless Leica comes up with some stroboscopic system for high-shutterspeed flash. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 29, 2008 Share #30 Posted January 29, 2008 Because the speed of the blades would be halved. With the current one the speed is geared to the smallest possible slit, considering diffraction, and the "speed"is changed by widening the gap.With a slower shutter the slits would remain the same and the speed lower, thus lowering the noise. But that would also surely affect the flash sync speed. The 250 according to the fastest time when the entire frame is open at once, so if the shutter blades are moving more slowly, it will likely affect the flash sync speed, unless there's a new flash coming which can handle a FP shutter. I agree though, the noisy bit is the wind-on and the initial release of the shutter lock, mostly that they both cause the body casting to ring because they are mounted directly on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 29, 2008 Share #31 Posted January 29, 2008 I agree, Mark, we cross-posted, see above. There are such stroboscopic systems already. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted January 29, 2008 Share #32 Posted January 29, 2008 I agree, Mark, we cross-posted, see above. There are such stroboscopic systems already. Such HSS flash systems are in the R9 and M7. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted January 29, 2008 Share #33 Posted January 29, 2008 LOL I have every confidence that this is a practical joke.. No company and I mean NO company charges $1500 for a hardened glass and a quiter mode of operations and firmware. C'mon everyone....this is just another wind up. andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tummydoc Posted January 29, 2008 Share #34 Posted January 29, 2008 LOL I have every confidence that this is a practical joke.. No company and I mean NO company charges $1500 for a hardened glass and a quiter mode of operations and firmware. C'mon everyone....this is just another wind up. andy A year and a half ago everyone would've believed you if you said "No company and I mean NO company charges $5600 for a 10mp sub-full-frame sensor digital camera that requires a >$100 IR filter over every lens, has more high-ISO noise than an entry-level DSLR, and after a year of production the AWB will yet be useless and the display will yet scroll madly at will That said, IIRC someone was quoted $700 for replacing the sprung shutter in their M8 which Leica accused them of damaging, so $1500 (it's closer to $1800 now) for replacing the LCD and the shutter and installing new firmware and re-warrantying the camera for an additional 2 years isn't inconceivable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelderfield Posted January 29, 2008 Share #35 Posted January 29, 2008 The ONLY and I mean ONLY upgrade that I NEED is the FRAME LINES! Leica needs to do this now!. Please Guy , Sean - TELL THEM AGAIN! I was just at Arlington National Cemetery working on a project and missed some pictures due to the bad frame lines! http://www.jefoto.com Jonathan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted January 29, 2008 Share #36 Posted January 29, 2008 Well the new firmware has been in my bodies for weeks now unless there is something else completely needed for this upgrade path which i don't know about. Better noise at high ISO values? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tummydoc Posted January 29, 2008 Share #37 Posted January 29, 2008 The ONLY and I mean ONLY upgrade that I NEED is the FRAME LINES! Leica needs to do this now!. Please Guy , Sean - TELL THEM AGAIN! I was just at Arlington National Cemetery working on a project and missed some pictures due to the bad frame lines! Jonathan Elderfield Photography Jonathan The framelines are fixed, they don't change randomly by themselves from time to time. Similar to a gunsight that is calibrated to a certain specific target distance, the experienced shooter compensates by judgment. The better and more determined the shooter, the greater degree of accuracy he attains. Conversely the more he sits back lazily and expects the equipment to do his thinking for him, the more likely he is to be frustrated and blame the equipment and its manufacturer for his own inequity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 29, 2008 Share #38 Posted January 29, 2008 LOL I have every confidence that this is a practical joke.. No company and I mean NO company charges $1500 for a hardened glass and a quiter mode of operations and firmware. C'mon everyone....this is just another wind up. andy I needed four new tyres on my car and it cost more.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 29, 2008 Share #39 Posted January 29, 2008 To me the most important thing here is the notion of the m8 as an upgradeable platform. That is unique today among portable pro-body camera makers, and even if only from an ecological perspective, laudible. I'd love to believe that they will continue to upgrade the M8 as new technology allows, and only release an M9 when there is a true reason to do so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tummydoc Posted January 29, 2008 Share #40 Posted January 29, 2008 I needed four new tyres on my car and it cost more.... I hear you. Mine are I think about $1200 apiece. Luckily my lease will be up before I need new ones Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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