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No M9, Only M8-2


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Guest guy_mancuso

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What i think would be fun is to actually figure out upgrade paths on the M8, obviously whatever they would be like hardware it would have to go to Solms to be done. I think that would be a fun discussion because we have done the firmware we would like to see but if you had the chance to send it to Solms for hardware upgrade than what would you want to see. My first vote would be the electronic frame lines. Maybe a different thread for this

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Guest guy_mancuso
I would suggest the following - I cannot say that this has come from any particular source. If you were to ask if I have been speaking to a person who would know I would have to say I cannot comment.

 

Shutter modified, lower speeed. Some shutters have failed/become damaged due to excessive speed.

 

New shutter module ready to accept future FF sensor with no IR issues.

 

Retro fit flash pc module

 

Firmware to include 'winder delay' to activate upon release of shutter button.

 

As I say, purely my own imagination :D:p

 

I think we all would like to have that PC connection back on the body for sure.

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Hey, he also scooped the R10, on comments on that?

 

Yes, I saw that as well and all I have to say is how much over sized and how much $$$$.

 

Perhaps there will be a teaser about the R10 at PMA with the official announcement at photokina.

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Here's my follow up on Guy's wishlist...

 

New sensor which makes us skip the horrendous filters,(and let's us use more older/special lenses without having to call Mc Gyver to help you fit a freakin pink mirror in front of it...?) manual shutter cock lever (less noise, more battery power) Electronic frame lines, with the possibility to select every focal length (within, the limits of the VF of course) in meny, and last but not least a future for a beloved M8's :-)

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Yes, I saw that as well and all I have to say is how much over sized and how much $$$$.

 

Perhaps there will be a teaser about the R10 at PMA with the official announcement at photokina.

 

Actually, it should be pellicle mirror, not pelical mirror, same stuff as you can find in Nikon F3H and Canon EOS RT ... I'm afraid that this is not something Doug is going to like, sounds the R10 is going to be a speed demon, 12 fps ... or more. :D

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Is this some kind of attempted recovery to my having de-bunked several of your arguments? Those at least were comprehensible :p

 

Thanks! I found them comprehensible as well. ;)

 

"De-bunked"? I don't think so. As you say, you considered most but not all of my comments.

 

You didn't mention my point #1, apparently agreeing with my comment that the Leica M cloth-shutter cameras have less accurate shutters.

 

You agreed with point #2, that successive early Hasselblad models dropped in top shutter speed, and recounted the familiar reasons for that fact. Interesting that a little over a year after Leica went to a bladed vertical-travel shutter, they then--if we accept the rumor--like Hasselblad, decided to reduce its speed. Possibly for the reasons that Hasselblad reduced the speed between 1600F and 1000F? We have had a couple cases of M8 shutters apparently either tearing or losing chunks. And as I've said previously, I've had a couple cases of what seems to be shutter capping at 1/8000.

 

You properly corrected me on the initial cost of the camera in #3. (What's $1000 when talking Leica?) And then you ignored my fudge-point about US pricing, based on analogy with previous service options such as 6-bit coding, and based your argument on what the upgrade would cost if one carried the camera to Solms to pay there at today's exchange rates. (Thanks, by the way, for twice stating today's Euro-Dollar conversion rates.)

 

You accept my point #4 (upgrading cameras currently on dealers' shelves) and extend it with your own logic.

 

You accept my point #5 (modular upgrade) and extend it to include the idea of Leica á la carte. My, original!

 

Your analogy seems off the mark on the question of point #6. In what sense is 1/8000 sec analogous to faulty brakes?

 

And you profess to know the future with comments like:

... What is certain is that anyone who recently purchased an M8 for $5500 is not going to fare as well....

Do you really believe that Leica won't grandfather recent purchasers?

 

You're quite right that the matter is still rumor. To me, that thought is included in my remark that we don't have to have the upgrade done: "We don't *have* to? We don't even know yet whether we can." In my view anyway, the point of the thread is to work out what the upgrade will mean if it comes about.

 

So basically, you corrected me on the initial cost of the camera, ignored a point or two, and extended my comments with your own predictions in a number of cases. I can't make head or tail of comparing a camera with a top shutter speed of 1/8000 sec with a car with faulty brakes, though I know the shutter also has a braking mechanism.

 

If this is what you call "de-bunking," so be it.

 

Vinay, you don't need to keep telling us how much you (think you) know. You sometimes have something to say. But many of us would prefer that you both read and write with your mind rather than your ego.

 

Sincerely,

--HC

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Tummydoc, please stop being so ***ing forensic - we're trying to have fun here! It's the chase, not the catch, that gives pleasure...

Oh, drat, Tim!

 

Your response is so much more direct and apropos than mine. :)

 

To quote from a 1930 issue of Punch:

 

No tempting blurb, no critics' bunk

Can animate this mass of junk.

 

 

 

Actually, it should be pellicle mirror, not pelical mirror, same stuff as you can find in Nikon F3H and Canon EOS RT ...

And every Leica reflex since the SL. Gosh-a-weenie, I'm glad to get that straight. I thought the R10 wasn't going to have a mirror at all. ;)

 

Glad you corrected the spelling! I mean, if these guys can't spell 'pellicle,' how can we trust their M8 upgrade rumors? :)

 

OMG--I just noticed that the cited site has been sighted to say the upgraded M8 will have a 'saphire' screen! Gotta watch that. Something new from Leica, I wot! Leave it to those guys to eschew mere sapphire for a more creative approach!

 

Gee, still have to wait half a day to get the straight bunk, err, uh, make that 'poop.' :D

 

--HC

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BTW someone said something about electronic frame lines. Now if that is a upgrade path , i am all over it like no ones business and if any upgrade that is the one i would want. I truly think in the overall picture ( no pun intended ) that would be the biggest lacking element of RF photography. That would be the one upgrade i would push for if i had my way or say for that matter. Really the only true handicap of the M8. IMHO

 

Some would maybe say other things but if you think about it more it is the hardest thing to truly nail down accurately. It takes a long time to get in your head exactly what is being planted on the sensor . The 75mm being the worst and actually if you think about it more a Portrait focal length that really does need to be accurate.

 

yep. someone from leica nj recommended to use the 50s framelines while shooting 75 :)

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is something I thought might be the case when I got mine as it is consistent with Leica's philosophy

I have little interest in the present upgrade as the shutter noise does not bother me all the much and I like having 1/8000 shutter speed as I use it on occasion

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If lowering the max. shutter speed to 1/4000th and spending $1800 will get me a shutter that even approaches the quietness of the old cloth shutter, I'll do it. I don't think I've ever used anything past 1/4000th, even shooting wide open.

 

But it's not the shutter travel that's so noisy, it's the winding/cocking after exposure. How would that be softened by (presumably) slowing the shutter travel (if that's what reducing the top speed would entail)?

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But it's not the shutter travel that's so noisy, it's the winding/cocking after exposure. How would that be softened by (presumably) slowing the shutter travel (if that's what reducing the top speed would entail)?

 

Reduce the spring pressure required to drive the shutter (by slowing it down) and you reduce the motor torque required to cock the spring, and thus the motor noise. Also the braking force of the shutter (read "click") is reduced if it is not moving so fast to begin with.

 

PROBABLY that means a reduction in sync speed (as in the 1/125th-4000th shutter of the Konica Hexar RF). But not necessarily, since the slit width can be adjusted to compensate. Nikon FM2/FA shutters had 1/4000th top speed and 1/250th sync speed, so that combination is possible.

 

Contax used artificial sapphire for the viewfinder window of the "T/T2/T3" P&S and the pressure plate of the ST SLR. But of course KYOto CERAmics was the parent company, and heavily into finding - unique - problems for its materials engineers to play with.

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Coming to a web-site near you; "Anatomy of an Ungraded Leica M8" or, "Spot where your €1200 went". ;)

 

Mark, you can put together a cost analysis like this one. A lot of folks (including me) will appreciate your work. :)

 

121907_ipod_touch_bom.bmp

 

 

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Coming to a web-site near you; "Anatomy of an Ungraded Leica M8" or, "Spot where your €1200 went". ;)

 

I can see an animated .gif of an M8 owner's €1200 being flushed down the toilet.

 

Either that or having it go into a "Suckers Born This Minute" jar in Solms.

 

Un*fricking*believable. If this rumor comes to fruition, and actually succeeds in getting people to pony up the cash, I'll begin re-thinking ALL my marketing strategies at work.

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I can see the secondhand value of M8s falling by, let's say, €1200 if this is announced. What will we call unmodified cameras: M8 Classic?

 

Coming to a web-site near you; "Anatomy of an Ungraded Leica M8" or, "Spot where your €1200 went". ;)

 

Mark, I don't understand. Why would the of current used M8s fall? Because they can be upgraded?!

 

Won't that mean fewer people will sell (which means smaller used market) and the value of the platform is retained, not degraded.

 

On the other hand, every other digital camera eventually becomes another brick and the value falls by half (or close) within a year.

 

Now, the value of un-used, on the shelf, non-upgraded M8s... that might fall significantly.

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I thought a teaser ad during the superbowl. Now that could totally confuse a nation ;)

 

:) <LOL> :)

 

 

On the other hand, every other digital camera eventually becomes another brick and the value falls by half (or close) within a year.

 

Don't forget, the M8 has already seen one price hike. And here we are discussing whether to lay out €1200 to bring our cameras into line with the newest one, which hasn't even been announced yet!

 

Cheaper solution for those who don't want to waste the time to send the camera to Solms: Why not just buy the new shutter speed dial (with 1/4000 top speed) and mount it on your camera? ;)

 

--HC

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