Leica M EV1: The first M with EVF instead of Rangefinder

[vkdev]

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I'm really glad this camera was released. I constantly see the younger generation working with the Leica M — they use the screen on the body and don't use the rangefinder at all. The lack of a rangefinder, the familiar experience of an electronic viewfinder and rear screen, and the lower price (though it's still damn expensive!) are all great reasons to buy this camera.

[Smogg]

Or maybe this camera is a clever move by Leica? Bad publicity is still publicity. Controversy increases brand awareness. It's also a good way to distract from the problems the M11 has been experiencing since its launch. After all, compared to the EV1, the M11 is an exceptionally remarkable product😂

[pgh]

10 hours ago, Jsung said:

Price is only an issue if they can’t make sufficient profit to sustain.

If compare it with Q or Nikon or Sony

People can still buy Sony or Nikon, and this is exactly why Leica needed something in that arena so customers can have more options! 

Something with less functionality at 3x the cost is hardly a real option for most prospective camera buyers, including, or especially even professionals. The only thing this is really a competitor to is a M11. This is essentially a bid to get rich people to buy a second or third or fourth body. Which is fine. That’s who Leica mostly caters to. I’m sure it can be profitable for them, and I’m sure that a lot of what is sold will be sitting at home most of the time.

(There’s a reason I buy used. It’s significantly less and you usually cameras with like 1-10k actuations on the shutter. Most first buyers of M’s hardly put them thru their paces these days it seems. It’s actually quite hard to find a well used digital Leica compared to a minty one.)

[algrove]

11 hours ago, pgh said:

I haven’t seen this. I am largely critical of this almost private equity luxury firm that happen to squirts out cameras next to their outsourced watches now. Air your thoughts. Don’t make political comments or personal attacks, but that’s easy enough when discussing Leicas strategy and technology. The political rule is applied a little differently and vaguely in more philosophical discussions but I think you can safely avoid it with this subject. 

It happens.

I got into big trouble for commenting on the M11 battery prices increase from $200 to $380 over night after the tariffs became reality. I assume it happened since the Euro price for said battery was unchanged and actually quite a bit lower than old $200 US pricing.

[algrove]

10 hours ago, rramesh said:

Leica is a niche player in a market where customers demand the best in traditional cameras (read rangefinder) and manual focus lenses. Leica will never be able to enter a realm of mass-market offering features for mass-market adoption. Their investment in R&D and in-house manufacturing will never be enough.

Their best bet here is to partner with a mass-market camera manufacturer e.g. Nikon. Many users use Nikon camera with Leica M lenses. The Nikon Z series actually works well with M lenses (thinner sensor stack). Of course some will say not so well with wide-angled lenses due to sensor stack and corner smearing. This is where a partnership makes sense.

What if Nikon were to release a line 'Leica model' with necessary sensor adaptation? It will be premier priced, but it will offer all the features users are clamoring for. 

If Leica were to partner with another company, why not first search out other L mount alliances first instead of Nikon first?

[DadDadDaddyo]

Are cameras expensive? Well, somewhat. But...

Hobbies are designed to be inherently affordable: a reach, perhaps, maybe even something you need to save up for, but attainable...

OK: a quick Google search, the cost of an outboard motor:

‐-------------------------

"Small outboards (10–30 HP): $1,500–$4,000.

Mid-range outboards (90–200 HP): $9,000–$22,000.

High-performance outboards (300–600 HP): $25,000–$50,000.

- Sep 10, 2024"

‐-------------------------

The notion that owning a Leica is only for the rich is a tired canard.

Leisure time hobbies are distinctively, characteristically, middle class. Costs are scaled to be within reach. 

Take a drive through any typical American suburb and see fishing boats, sitting in driveways, on trailers, under tarps. And how many days per year do they get to use them?

How much do folks have invested in the contents of their gun safes? And how often do they use them?

Anybody checked the price of a vacation at a commercial resort lately? How many times per year do folks visit Fantasy Land?

It's all about making choices. For my part, I choose to have camera equipment at hand, ready to use whenever the muse calls. A Leica is an attainable, accessible, piece of photographic technical excellence, and a used one, even more so. 

[algrove]

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3 hours ago, evikne said:

I guess that many 75mm Summiluxes and other notoriously miscalibrated and difficult-to-focus lenses will now be taken out and brought back to life. 😊 

Been using mine on the SL series for years.

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, jjroroek said:

the m evf is a trial of Leica. if this m evf will adapted the m12 will be with evf and ibis.. i geuss the biggests  problem will be focussing with closed aparture 

No, the M12 is guaranteed to be a rangefinder regardless of M-EV1 sales. Also, M12 will certainly not have a hybrid viewfinder.

[algrove]

If this EV1 is not well received, perhaps it might be due to the way Leica asked the M community about putting an EVF in an M body.

I remember seeing Leica marketing surveys that asked a simple EVF in an M body question-yes, no or maybe. That seemed to be too simplistic in retrospect.

I do not remember seeing any further questions about how would one want the EVF implemented into the M body and what focus aids would one want and importantly where should it be priced compared to the current M body, say with Viso2.

Was the survey initiated to the right group and were the questions delving deeply into what a potential M-EVF user would expect from the new camera?

Based on the majority of responses here, I doubt it.

Edited 9 hours ago by algrove

[Jeff S]

20 hours ago, Pixeleater said:

Yeah, that’s spot on — the M10-R still uses the same front-side sensor architecture as the M10, just with smaller pixels to get to 40+ MP. The tradeoff is a bit more noise and a touch less dynamic range per pixel, but overall it’s still beautifully balanced.

 

No, that’s wrong. The M10-R (and M10 Monochrom) has completely new sensor architecture derived from the S3, incorporating dual gain tech, revised pixel shape, 10% more light gathering photons due to moved electronics, etc.  Stefan Daniel has elaborated on these improvements in various interviews.  Despite the smaller pixels, the dynamic range is reported (Red Dot Forum) to have increased a stop vs the M10. 

[Chito]

I'm sort of glad the EV1 is tech wise the same as an M11..  that way I don't get any FOMO.   I love my M11, but if I didn't have that camera I'd rather have a Q than the EV1.

[Chito]

I was also on the IBIS might not be possible on an M due to the image circle size, but after a bit of research I found that the image circle is and has to be a lot larger than the FF coverage for it to work so it should work more than fine.

 

If an M12 has IBIS, disregarding whatever other upgrade it might have (as long as it's not worse than the M11) I would be hard pressed not to seriously consider it.

[250swb]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

I believe the first Nikon that supported lenses with electronics was the F5 (1996). I assume no Nikon lenses older than 1996 had electronics.

SLR lenses generally speaking stop down automatically, it's a mechanical function but it's not a unique function. As for electronic lenses automatically stopping down isn't that stating the obvious? I mean, what was your point?

[pgh]

1 hour ago, algrove said:

It happens.

I got into big trouble for commenting on the M11 battery prices increase from $200 to $380 over night after the tariffs became reality. I assume it happened since the Euro price for said battery was unchanged and actually quite a bit lower than old $200 US pricing.

When you say it happens - what is that you mean? Like your comments were deleted? You were reprimanded? I would love to see them and then the rationale behind it. Not entirely interested in participating in a community with a heavy hand of censorship when comments are really within the spirit (and letter) of the rules. 

[M11 for me]

vor 50 Minuten schrieb SrMi:

No, the M12 is guaranteed to be a rangefinder regardless of M-EV1 sales. Also, M12 will certainly not have a hybrid viewfinder.

I think it will go like that:

M11, M11xx, M12, M12xx, M13 . . . . (all rangefinders pure) and an other family member will be M EV1, M EV2, M EV3 . . . (all EV cameras)

And M13 launch date will be September 2038. The M13-D will be in 2030. Will be in Leica rumors soon . . .

But maybe they skip the number 13 🥲

[pgh]

55 minutes ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

The notion that owning a Leica is only for the rich is a tired canard.

Leisure time hobbies are distinctively, characteristically, middle class. Costs are scaled to be within reach. 

Take a drive through any typical American suburb and see fishing boats, sitting in driveways, on trailers, under tarps. And how many days per year do they get to use them?

How much do folks have invested in the contents of their gun safes? And how often do they use them?

Anybody checked the price of a vacation at a commercial resort lately? How many times per year do folks visit Fantasy Land?

The idea that a 9k camera is within reach for a large majority is a tired canard.

How many middle aged middle class people do you know? Are they spending 9k on a vacation? If they are, they are making far beyond the median wage, somehow don’t pay for housing or are rapidly tanking their credit score for long term damage. The avg median household wage in your state is 77k. This camera would be a significant chunk of an annual wage, not to mention a lens. 

Leica making expensive stuff is fine, but let’s not pretend it is targeted for the actual middle class. This isn’t 1955 anymore. The middle class is more often 2 adults working full time using any extra funding they have to afford the childcare necessary to do that and barely scraping housing costs together. There is no room there for a 9k camera, and frankly  given some of the comments here I’m highly suspect most of this forum can even venture to fathom half of what that reality is. 

[IkarusJohn]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

I believe the first Nikon that supported lenses with electronics was the F5 (1996). I assume no Nikon lenses older than 1996 had electronics.

The earlier Nikkor Ai lenses had no electronics, but had aperture stop down. This goes back well before the F5; before my time, but I think the original F and the Nikormat had Aperture stop down. Certainly, my FE from the late 70s (my first Nikon) did.

[Stephen.s1]

Why is everyone so grateful for a slightly richer EVF?  

 

[rtai]

I am an M11M user also an SL2 and previously a Q2M. I moved from film to the Q2M because the 28mm is just about perfect for me. But ultimately I didn’t get on with the AF which brought back memories of my early 90’s consumer grade Nikons. So if a shot was important I manually focused and if the shot required speed I stopped down and zoned. So after a few months of that I thought I should just sell it for an M to use my M lenses. Using a wide angle on an M11M is like shooting film. Focus with the RF and compose with an accessory finder. I had the Viso but found I bulky and when I preferred the thumb grip I no longer wanted to use the accessory shoe for a VF. So I focused and composed with the rear screen and then just used peak focusing with the rear screen and not bother with the RF. For this reason I was and still sort of interested in this EV1 (until I saw the price tag). Anyone who has manually focused a Q2 or 3, SL bodies will know the limitations. If you need to shoot fast for street then peaking is not accurate enough unless you shoot wide and stopped down. Even my 24/1.4 Summilux has thin dof at 2 meter my usual working distance with this lens. 

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[SrMi]

3 minutes ago, Stephen.s1 said:

Why is everyone so grateful for a slightly richer EVF?  

 

Everyone? 🤣