EVF M rumoured

[pgk]

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IF Leica produce an evfM it is obviously essential that its focus system is as accurate and fast as the rangefinder. Anything else would be a retrograde step.

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[evikne]

14 minutes ago, pgk said:

IF Leica produce an evfM it is obviously essential that its focus system is as accurate and fast as the rangefinder. Anything else would be a retrograde step.

But if they get it right, I'm afraid it's the beginning of the end for mechanical rangefinders in the digital Ms.

Edited February 16 by evikne

[Ralf]

vor 55 Minuten schrieb evikne:

But if they get it right, I'm afraid it's the beginning of the end for mechanical rangefinders in the digital Ms.

+1

[pgk]

1 hour ago, evikne said:

But if they get it right, I'm afraid it's the beginning of the end for mechanical rangefinders in the digital Ms.

No it won't be. I have evf and rf cameras. Chalk and cheese. dSLRs still exist alongside evf cameras, as do rf cameras. Choice and preference will still be required in the marketplace. I still prefer using an rf camera to any other system but that does not mean to say that I don't appreciate the advantages on an evf camera when they are obvious. But unlike some (few or many, I'm unsure) I don't hanker after an evf camera which is shaped like an M camera and has an M mount. The M mount especially is tecnically too small and an absolute limiting factor. The idea on a manual focus evf camera in today's market seems very dubious. Which leaves an evfM as a niche withing a niche as has been stated many times. FWIW an M shaped and sized L mount camera makes vastly better sense but upsets/offends those who believe that such a camera must have the limiting M mount.

[TeleElmar135mm]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Derbyshire Man:

A nuclear powered M12 with a new version of fotos which automatically donates £40m to the National Portrait Gallery and direct uploads your photos to your exhibition there as you shoot?

... nuclear is out here in Germany - the M12 will have a solar-cell-hat, connected in the hot shoe and a solar thermie panel for the winter model   

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[Tseg]

I think an EVF M will require a 2 lens system, so that you focus the lens going to the sensor while you leave the EVF lens at F16.  No?

Business case:  Leica sells 2 lenses for every 1 camera.

[Smogg]

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11 minutes ago, Tseg said:

I think an EVF M will require a 2 lens system, so that you focus the lens going to the sensor while you leave the EVF lens at F16.  No?

Business case:  Leica sells 2 lenses for every 1 camera.

Or have built-in lidar for focus confirmation on wide lenses and/or closed apertures.

[pgk]

13 minutes ago, TeleElmar135mm said:

... nuclear is out here in Germany - the M12 will have a solar-cell-hat, connected in the hot shoe and a solar thermie panel for the winter model   

At least Leica users would be easier to spot😆.

[TeleElmar135mm]

vor 34 Minuten schrieb pgk:

At least Leica users would be easier to spot😆.

... right. But the worst case is, that tape off the logo will not help  

[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, pgk said:

IF Leica produce an evfM it is obviously essential that its focus system is as accurate and fast as the rangefinder. Anything else would be a retrograde step.

I agree about accurate, but since many of the EVF M proponents want help with failing eyesight, then they may be willing to sacrifice speed. And those who are familiar with EVFs but newbies to rangefinders, and nervous about using them, will not be aware of comparative performance.

[FrozenInTime]

55 minutes ago, Smogg said:

Or have built-in lidar for focus confirmation on wide lenses and/or closed apertures.

An interesting footnote in the history of rangefinders is the Linhof 2000 EMS:

"Converts the basic Master Technica 2000 into a fast action camera for handheld large format photography" !

The intent of this electronic module was to replace the traditional lens matched cam and optical rangefinder on the Linhof Master Technica.

It measured the distance to subject on a linear CCD and indicated when the bellows were extended to match this focus, using an IR sensor as a cross check.

There is a good scan of the brochure here: http://www.laflexcamera.com/brochures  

 

This was all a bit much for the electronics of the time, a failure, and was recalled by Linhof; an expensive electronic way of doing something opto-mechanically simple.

But the LiDAR and ToF sensors of today would be relatively easy to incorporate in a EVF-M body; to function as a cross check for stopped-down lens focusing.

[lct]

36 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I agree about accurate, but since many of the EVF M proponents want help with failing eyesight, then they may be willing to sacrifice speed. And those who are familiar with EVFs but newbies to rangefinders, and nervous about using them, will not be aware of comparative performance.

Focus magnification takes some time but for good enough fast focusing there still is focus peaking. Even faster than RF focusing since there is no focus recompose to do.

[sinjun]

3 hours ago, pgk said:

IF Leica produce an evfM it is obviously essential that its focus system is as accurate and fast as the rangefinder. Anything else would be a retrograde step.

Agreed up to a point. I like using the rangefinder method when I know my lens is well calibrated but it's not uncommon for lenses to be slightly out - and I'm not just talking about focus shift. I have a number of lenses which I compensate for by slight turns of the focus ring and I find myself become less tolerant of the need to do this.

[Derbyshire Man]

5 hours ago, lct said:

Matter of practice i guess but the Visoflex 2 is capable enough as a standalone manual focusing camera, at least for me. As far as my lenses are concerned, focus magnification together with focus peaking can do it at working aperture with lenses from 12mm to 135mm. 28mm at f/8 here, full frame and crop.

I think it's ok if your style is slow enough to accept magnification and your subjects happy to be static but for off centre portraiture/environmental/street with open apertures that's simply not practical. As ever we need to look more broadly at others' use cases rather than our own needs and preferences.

Focus peaking is too broad for f1.4 it simply doesn't work, more resolution is the answer, it's quite feasible with 5.5mp or better and focus peaking turned off, frame rate is also important so 5-6mp with decent frame rate is better than choppy 10mp+

Edited February 16 by Derbyshire Man

[pgk]

2 hours ago, lct said:

Focus magnification takes some time but for good enough fast focusing there still is focus peaking. Even faster than RF focusing since there is no focus recompose to do.

Focus peaking is really not as precise as rangefinder focusing. I regularly use it to give an approximation of focus then magnify the image to fine tune the precise point of focus. This works well enough but is slow and only suitable for static subject matter, and is certainly slower than using a rangefinder. Using focus peaking alone is not, in my experience, as accurate as a rangefinder especially with wide angle lenses.

[jaapv]

In fact it can be quite precise if one realizes that it has a kind of DOF; If one "walks" the plane of focus and puts it in the middle of the peaking zone, normally it is spot-on.

[charlesphoto99]

If someone finds rangefinder focusing is only 'capable enough' or 'good enough' but not perfect (for them), then why would one want only a 'capable enough' or 'good enough' but not perfect EVF-M to replace what already works to the same degree? If Leica do it, it has to be state of the art for what they charge. Hopefully it is, but I'm not holding my breath...

[Derbyshire Man]

24 minutes ago, jaapv said:

In fact it can be quite precise if one realizes that it has a kind of DOF; If one "walks" the plane of ocus and puts it in the middle of the peaking zone, normally it is spot-on.

Interesting, I'll give that a go.

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[lct]

27 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

If someone finds rangefinder focusing is only 'capable enough' or 'good enough' but not perfect (for them), then why would one want only a 'capable enough' or 'good enough' but not perfect EVF-M to replace what already works to the same degree?

Because they prefer EVF to RF i guess. Also the EVF does not work to the same degree in that it can focus more accurately thanks to focus magnification. It is when speed is required that the RF can prove superior but it is a matter of practice and/or taste since focus peaking can be very fast too. Good for RF and EVF users, there is some place for both.

Edited February 16 by lct

[raizans]

I’m dreaming of eye control over PDAF focus points. No need for peaking! You look at the spot where you want to focus, then turn the focusing ring until a green indicator turns on, Nikon style.