EVF M rumoured

[Stevejack]

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8 hours ago, Nitnaros said:

a step from 60 MP to 100 MP would not deliver very much

100/60=1.66 more MPs across the sensor means 1.28 x increase in resolution horizontally and vertically (1.28x1.28=1.6); that is not a huge difference resolution wise

a 50% increase in each direction means 1.5 x 1.5 =225 2.25 increase in MP required
that would be a 135 MP sensor

if you really want to upgrade, 2x in each direction in terms of MP, that would mean 60 x 2 x 2 =240 MP sensor...

I've never been against high megapixel cameras, even in the M, but I wonder if enough is enough for a while.  If they implement an E-Shutter it needs to be a good one (stacked or global), and even the best of the best of the current generation stacked sensors maxes out at 50mp. 

The readout time on large megapixel sensors is the issue... If they give us a mechanical shutter it won't be a big problem but if they're going to push all the benefits of an e-shutter, with silent / blackout free shooting etc., there will need to be some give and take in terms of megapixels vs readout time. 

[jaapv]

27 minutes ago, phojomatic said:

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Why would an EVF M have EVF contacts in the hot shoe? 😜

[wattsy]

8 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Why would an EVF M have EVF contacts in the hot shoe? 😜

You might want to use two EVFs.😂 Which actually isn't quite as stupid as it sounds because there might be situations where the user would prefer to use the tiltable accessory EVF.

[phojomatic]

13 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Why would an EVF M have EVF contacts in the hot shoe? 😜

There's always that one guy .... 🤣

In my other mockup where I offset the red dot, I was actually going to make it a P model and add a fake giant screw instead. 

It would go with your funny comment about the fake rewind lever and fake RF window lol.

In truth, I love that the M (and Fuji GFX 100 II) have the tillable evf and I find it useful for formal portraits or table top shots. But buying an Visio for and EVF M is a bit much, I'll admit.

Edited February 13 by phojomatic

[jdlaing]

39 minutes ago, phojomatic said:

The first thing that struck me when I saw the M11-D photos is that when Leica removed the ISO dial, it really looked like they were prepping for something that needed more space in that area. Granted the M11-D has ISO on the back, but it could have just as easily been on the back like the M10-D with EV Comp and WiFi dial.  I've used an M10-D and I really liked that design, with the caveat that the WiFi was pretty painful to connect at the time.

On the other hand, rumors suggest that the top cover is 3mm smaller, and if so, the internals could be the same, possibly even with the ISO dial in place but it would need a shorter stalk (and new part number for inventory, etc). Remove the ISO dial and I guess we can use the back button to change settings? Seems counter to the principle of exposure triangle of ISO, Shutter and Aperture.

FWIW, I noticed that the Visio 2 height is the same as the RF area. I made a very quick mockup using that screen and a metal diopter control....this should be possible to implement in a water resistant way using the same approach as the rear dial. I also made the mockup top plate 3mm shorter. I didn't have a studio shot of the Visio and had to use a photo, but in concept I think it could solve the diopter issue.

At the very least, although I don't love the rectangle, perhaps Leica could use a metal diopter wheel like this on future M's and give us "aging outs" a little help.

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There is not enough room in that part of the top plate for that mechanism.

[IkarusJohn]

On 2/9/2025 at 10:41 PM, pgk said:

The constraints imposed by having to build such small (jewell-like) lenses means that they have to be optically superlative simply to compete with unrestrained (larger) designs. Add the lack of information exchange with the camera body and it is clear the M lenses are compromised if compared to those from other makers.

All that said, this all depends where you are coming from. If you insist of using a 60MPixel camera and wringing every last drop of technical excellence out of it then you will probably find more effective alternatives. If you enjoy the RF (not EVF) experience and the whole concept and use of the Leica M system and are happy with half the number of MPixels or less then the M can be a great way of taking photos. IMO Leica lost the plot with the M11 .....

I can see uses for an evfM but probably not for general photography and undoubtedly it would be too costly for the uses I would put it too.

This raises a point often overlooked in these discussions.

The M system is constrained by the M mount and much else, but in terms of lens quality, the L mount lenses are limited to L mount cameras and achieve their perfection through lack of size limitation and in camera software corrections.  I don’t have a problem with this, but it is a distinction with the M lenses - they have to perform to the level they do without any software corrections in camera.

 

[jaapv]

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20 minutes ago, wattsy said:

You might want to use two EVFs.😂 Which actually isn't quite as stupid as it sounds because there might be situations where the user would prefer to use the tiltable accessory EVF.

Indeed if the top plate were this height it would need a distinct bump over the viewfinder. Maybe even with a standard top plate. Probably the CL solution where the round ocular makes the bump logical would be possible. 
Or a Digilux 2 or M5 type of solution. 

[Crem]

2 hours ago, evikne said:

But with so many different models, which ones should go where? 🤔🤪

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Your list really needs a M-C (classic). A reissue of the M10-P with updated electronics, modern 24MP sensor, and a new battery.

[jrichie]

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

Indeed if the top plate were this height it would need a distinct bump over the viewfinder. Maybe even with a standard top plate. Probably the CL solution where the round ocular makes the bump logical would be possible. 
Or a Digilux 2 or M5 type of solution. 

Let's hope not as that will ruin the aesthetic.  I think the body will retain the same M form with the EVF similar to the Q3 in appearance and the rear quite minimal, as Leica should make a point that this is a new version and make it distinctive but with the same clean simple functionality.

Traditional RF M retaining its current design [with the M12 rear being similar in layout to the SL3/Q3].

Edited February 13 by jrichie

[charlesphoto99]

3 hours ago, wattsy said:

You might want to use two EVFs.😂 Which actually isn't quite as stupid as it sounds because there might be situations where the user would prefer to use the tiltable accessory EVF.

Actually, they'll probably come out with a whole new line of optical viewfinders for the hot shoe - for those times you just gotta go old school - and look cool doing it. 🤣

[jakontil]

6 hours ago, 250swb said:

Let's face it, Leica have all the ideas and technology to do anything they want, the only impediment are the 'old crowd' who they still rely on to buy the cameras. So until there are enough of the 'new crowd' who've grown up on iPhones it's safe to say they are waiting for the old generation to die before the revolution will begin. They have never taken photographers along with them on a journey like other camera manufacturers but stuck to principles which have both sold lots of cameras and held them back at the same time, so we are the 'problem' for Leica.

When the old crowd vanish, would the new generation appreciate the special editions released back in the day? Or prices would just dip like normal productions?

i might have to tell my kids what they have to do with my legacy soon

[costa43]

7 hours ago, 250swb said:

Let's face it, Leica have all the ideas and technology to do anything they want, the only impediment are the 'old crowd' who they still rely on to buy the cameras. So until there are enough of the 'new crowd' who've grown up on iPhones it's safe to say they are waiting for the old generation to die before the revolution will begin. They have never taken photographers along with them on a journey like other camera manufacturers but stuck to principles which have both sold lots of cameras and held them back at the same time, so we are the 'problem' for Leica.

I agree but the old crowd are the reason they still exist today. How loyal this new crowd will be holds a question mark for me. Phases/fads come and go, especially when they are based on what is trending at the time and public perception, if Leica move away from their heritage too quickly or too far, it could have an impact. They could move over to a more transactional business model than one based on a loyal following. I also think there are many inbetweeners, I’m 47 years old, the classic rangefinder is my favourite camera of all time, bar none. Which yet again takes us back to how nice it would be to have two separate lines 🤣

Edit : I also think Leica’s management team although focused on profit as much as any other business, also really do care about the history and legacy of the brand. 

Edited February 13 by costa43

[raizans]

The old crowd is the first audience that asked for the EVF-M, so I don't know where you're getting the idea that they're in the way of innovation.

Edited February 13 by raizans

[Steve Ash]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb lct:

We shall see but sans-RF M bodies have always been a variant of a previous model if i remember well. For instance, M1 and MD were variants of the M2, MDa of the M4 and MD-2 of the M4-2.

I would guess the same. M240 makes sense to gain space for the evf.

[Steve Ash]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb 250swb:

Let's face it, Leica have all the ideas and technology to do anything they want, the only impediment are the 'old crowd' who they still rely on to buy the cameras. So until there are enough of the 'new crowd' who've grown up on iPhones it's safe to say they are waiting for the old generation to die before the revolution will begin. They have never taken photographers along with them on a journey like other camera manufacturers but stuck to principles which have both sold lots of cameras and held them back at the same time, so we are the 'problem' for Leica.

I do not buy in that the enthusiasm about a camera with a rangefinder depends on the age. If so I think the younger generation is in general more open to something out off the norm. From that perspective the age structure actually should be quite the opposite. Looking at the entry price It is more likely that the age structure is strongly affected by the income of the younger folk or the lack of it.

Edited February 13 by Steve Ash

[Smudgerer]

Well there's no smoke without fire, and if this thread's any indication there's a hell of a lot of smoke around..........I could be wrong of course but to me I think it's pretty clear that there will be some sort of an EVF M en-route and probably so later this year, ( where's "Stephen" when we need him? ). I am sure there's test models out there too at this time.

If this is true then I think it's a gamble that could be worth it to make on Leica's part, two streams for the M mount cameras, one rangefinder and the other an EVF based version. One advantage of this is that perhaps Leica will be able to slow down on trying to stuff any more, ( too much? ), electronic wizardry into the RF M, ( ie: that weird bird IBIS ), keep it simple and reliable without chasing the never ending always illusive electronic Chimera for the RF camera and let the EVF line run with all of that. 

I can see a number of reasons why a present M RF user would wish to add an EVF M body to their kit, many of those reasons have been flogged to death here in this thread, but mostly sort of valid none the less. Me? no thank you......I dislike an EVF in any form, they lie....But for many they are desireable and useful and for the newer generations raised from birth it seems with an electronic screen strapped on before their eyes it could well be an easy step to take.

[Smogg]

22 minutes ago, Smudgerer said:

Well there's no smoke without fire, and if this thread's any indication there's a hell of a lot of smoke around..........I could be wrong of course but to me I think it's pretty clear that there will be some sort of an EVF M en-route and probably so later this year, ( where's "Stephen" when we need him? ). I am sure there's test models out there too at this time.

If this is true then I think it's a gamble that could be worth it to make on Leica's part, two streams for the M mount cameras, one rangefinder and the other an EVF based version. One advantage of this is that perhaps Leica will be able to slow down on trying to stuff any more, ( too much? ), electronic wizardry into the RF M, ( ie: that weird bird IBIS ), keep it simple and reliable without chasing the never ending always illusive electronic Chimera for the RF camera and let the EVF line run with all of that. 

I can see a number of reasons why a present M RF user would wish to add an EVF M body to their kit, many of those reasons have been flogged to death here in this thread, but mostly sort of valid none the less. Me? no thank you......I dislike an EVF in any form, they lie....But for many they are desireable and useful and for the newer generations raised from birth it seems with an electronic screen strapped on before their eyes it could well be an easy step to take.

I think those who wanted to add EVF-M to their rangefinder have already done so by purchasing the Q28 or Q43.

[pedaes]

4 minutes ago, Smogg said:

I think those who wanted to add EVF-M to their rangefinder have already done so by purchasing the Q28 or Q43.

With the added benefit of Autofocus.

[Smogg]

5 minutes ago, pedaes said:

With the added benefit of Autofocus.

And OIS

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[Smudgerer]

16 minutes ago, Smogg said:

I think those who wanted to add EVF-M to their rangefinder have already done so by purchasing the Q28 or Q43.

Sure there is that, but there's also the fact that the Q's, excellent though they are and I for one am a big fan of the Q2-M, do not allow for the use of interchangeable M lenses which I think is a very big "wish list" item for those pressing for an EVF M.

Whichever way this debate flops there's winning and losing issues.