EVF M rumoured

[TeleElmar135mm]

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vor 50 Minuten schrieb Chris W:

I couldn't disagree more.

I have a 1980 (pre-ash) 35mm Summicron on my M10 and you have to seriously pixel peep to see anything lacking when comparing to my modern Hasselblad X1D2 with 45p lens.

I have Sigma lenses, plus Voigtlander M mount. They both produce wonderful sharp images with nice colours.

There are literally dozens of amazing lenses available for the M mount. Leica, Voigtlander, Zeiss, Konica, Minolta plus new Chinese made additions.

People seem to have bought into this mad tech industry churn inducing idea that if something is over a year old it's no good any more.

... sorry you missundertand me. Yes there are many factories producing good lenses for the L/M-Leicas. My aim was what Leica has in the roadmap and what this means for a hypothetic EVF-M. Leica sets the direction for the product line. The other companies addressed here can only react in the M sector.

And to the SL pre-asph. I had this lens for years. Full open the asph. is miles ahead esp. in low light with strong lights. It was brilliant from f/4. But everyone has another feeeling.

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[Chris W]

11 minutes ago, TeleElmar135mm said:

My aim was what Leica has in the roadmap and what this means for a hypothetic EVF-M. Leica sets the direction for the product line. 

There is nothing wrong with the current M lens line up.

[Smogg]

This is indeed true. Leica currently has a great range of expensive and high-quality m-lenses. Voightlander provides us with more affordable lenses. What more could you ask for?

[Chris W]

Zeiss M lenses are $600 to $900 used. A lot of people love the affordable Leica 40mm and the even cheaper Minolta 40mm.

[Derbyshire Man]

For my core lenses I prefer the Leica version, ie 24/28/35FLE/35mm pre-asph/50 summiluxes, summicron C 40mm, SEM21, but for my rarer use lenses, ie 75/90/21 f1.4 I’ve gone voigtlander as the cost vs use equation is way out of balance. 

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Chris W:

They have addressed the 'modern EVF super duper' with two lines, the SL and Q lines.

No. SL and Q only have an EVF. We talk about an EVF-M that will hopefully be more than just an M with an integrated Visoflex. It looks like you keep forgetting this on purpose.

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Chris W:

In the music digital world, people are going back to vinyl. It's less convenient but people prefer the tactile product over the convenience of digital.

I imagine Leica are selling more Leica M's now than 20 years ago. In the 90's you rarely saw a Leica M. It was an expensive, niche camera.

I know a pro photojournalist who has an SL3 and an M11. He uses the M 90% of the time.

All your examples try to make the exception and the niche the rule.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Chris W:

There is nothing wrong with the current M lens line up.

There is, but this is off-topic here and we have another thread dedicated to their current lens line up: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/419449-how-about-a-really-new-lens-again/

[Chris W]

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Whatever....sigh.

Seems to me you're looking for a different camera to the Leica M (in any format).

Someone guessed that not many pros who own an M actual use it for work. I don't know more than a few professional photographers, but the one I know who is a Leica fan uses his M all the time.

You think that's an exception....just more guessing.

 

Edited February 23 by Chris W

[SrMi]

5 hours ago, jaapv said:

Yes but why do they bring out M11 type cameras at the same time as pre-aspherical Summiluxes?  It gives a sense of loss of direction or maybe two schools of thinking competing. 

The vintage design lenses draw differently. It is good to have a choice instead of perusing eBay for good examples, often offered at exorbitant prices. 

The lenses offered have nothing to do with the bodies offered.

[lct]

Vintage lenses may need a modern body to express their character. A Super-Angulon 21/3.4 exhibits ugly red edges on my M240, for example, but not on my M11. Ditto for my Summicron 50/2 DR, which cannot focus to infinity on my M240 but does so with no problem on the M11. Not to mention lenses needing goggles to focus in RF mode, while they can do it sans goggles with an EVF.

[pgk]

34 minutes ago, Chris W said:

Someone guessed that not many pros who own an M actual use it for work. I don't know more than a few professional photographers, but the one I know who is a Leica fan uses his M all the time.

You think that's an exception....just more guessing.

Well I use an M for work! An M9 that is. Still produces great and saleable images. Its not the only camera I use though. And the current M lens line up is more than good enough (much more). Depends of course on requirements and expectations. But an evfM would undoubtedly be a niche within a niche, because M bayonet cameras are most certainly a niche in pgotographic terms). Speaking as someone who uses a lot of lenses adapted for one reason or another, all I can say is that using M lenses on say a Sony A7 series body, will produce 'good enough' images for most purposes (although not pixel peeping) for many people. I suppose that the message I'm trying to expound is that if you shoot for specific output needs then many cameras/lenses are overkill. Whilst I can see the attraction for an evfM, I can't see it being an effective solution because to me the problem it solves doesn't exist in such a way as to make it worth pursuing. Unless an evfM was much cheaper than an rfM I would not be interested as reasonable solutions already exist and I don't hanker after an M shaped SL with an M lens mount, nor do I really need such a camera. In fact no matter what tech was packed inside it I don't know that it would make any sense for me. I can get that tech cheaper elsewhere. What I can't easily get elsewhere is an rfM! [Pixii have the only alternative offering].

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, pgk said:

… I don't hanker after an M shaped SL …

I agree.  Such a camera would be pointless.  Why not make the next SL as comfortable in the hand as the X2D, but obviously smaller.  

An MEVF wouldn’t kill the rangefinder version.  It would just be an M camera with an EVF for those who prefer using the Visoflex for all the reasons outlined in the prior 40 pages, and in all the other threads.  Trying to turn such a camera into something else just wouldn’t work.  What would be the point?

Edited February 23 by IkarusJohn

[costa43]

6 hours ago, Chris W said:

They have addressed the 'modern EVF super duper' with two lines, the SL and Q lines.

I do not disagree but it seems a lot of people want to use their M lenses on an M camera with an EVF. 

[jrichie]

6 hours ago, Chris W said:

Two complete guesses.

In the music digital world, people are going back to vinyl. It's less convenient but people prefer the tactile product over the convenience of digital.

I imagine Leica are selling more Leica M's now than 20 years ago. In the 90's you rarely saw a Leica M. It was an expensive, niche camera.

I know a pro photojournalist who has an SL3 and an M11. He uses the M 90% of the time.

Anecdote for you here - I was talking to the manager of a Leica store once about the Leica customer.  He said there were usually 2 types [obviously you can also be both].

1. Wealthy, and walk in and buy up a whole system and lenses because they can, and are only in the store because it's 'Leica'.  They are buying the brand.

2. People who have saved up / or are very passionate about the process and love photography and using M cameras, lenses etc.

I fall into number 2.  I was fortunate to have the money, but also love the M [except for my glasses issues hence wanting an EVF].

He told me most customers of Leica fall into number 1 and I witnessed it first hand on multiple occasions.

So yes the M is still and expensive niche camera.  Its popularity mainly due to trend on old looking cameras bought by people with a lot of money.

I would prefer the M to look and operate in a thoroughly modern manner, have minimal controls, large screen and EVF.  It won't, as Leica are making more money out of these people who just want to buy cool and have the right brand and product around their necks to demonstrate so called wealth.

 

 

[Dazzajl]

4 minutes ago, jrichie said:

He told me most customers of Leica fall into number 1 and I witnessed it first hand on multiple occasions.

And yet I’ve not seen a single person on this forum identify as that person. It’s certainly an interesting dynamic and why it’s much harder for Leica than any other maker to identify who they should be making products for. 

[jrichie]

8 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

I agree.  Such a camera would be pointless.  Why not make the next SL as comfortable in the hand as the X2D, but obviously smaller.  

An MEVF wouldn’t kill the rangefinder version.  It would just be an M camera with an EVF for those who prefer using the Visoflex for all the reasons outlined in the prior 40 pages, and in all the other threads.  Trying to turn such a camera into something else just wouldn’t work.  What would be the point?

If they made the SL smaller, yes I would buy it, but they havent.

I agree MEVF wouldnt kill the the optical version.  I am sure they can retain the essence of the M, but also differentiate so it remains an M family but each is distinctive [a modern more minimal M and traditional M - digital and optical].

It ends up being more like a Q if that happens though which is why I said in an earlier post a Q body makes more sense to me.  However my bets are on, what you say, an standard M with minor changes and an EVF.

[jrichie]

Just now, Dazzajl said:

And yet I’ve not seen a single person on this forum identify as that person. It’s certainly an interesting dynamic and why it’s much harder for Leica than any other maker to identify who they should be making products for. 

yes, this forum is for number 2's

[SrMi]

21 minutes ago, jrichie said:

Anecdote for you here - I was talking to the manager of a Leica store once about the Leica customer.  He said there were usually 2 types [obviously you can also be both].

1. Wealthy, and walk in and buy up a whole system and lenses because they can, and are only in the store because it's 'Leica'.  They are buying the brand.

2. People who have saved up / or are very passionate about the process and love photography and using M cameras, lenses etc.

I fall into number 2.  I was fortunate to have the money, but also love the M [except for my glasses issues hence wanting an EVF].

He told me most customers of Leica fall into number 1 and I witnessed it first hand on multiple occasions.

So yes the M is still and expensive niche camera.  Its popularity mainly due to trend on old looking cameras bought by people with a lot of money.

I would prefer the M to look and operate in a thoroughly modern manner, have minimal controls, large screen and EVF.  It won't, as Leica are making more money out of these people who just want to buy cool and have the right brand and product around their necks to demonstrate so called wealth.

That is stereotyped thinking, an unfortunate characteristic for a Leica store manager :(.

Edited February 23 by SrMi

[Dazzajl]

18 minutes ago, jrichie said:

yes, this forum is for number 2's

I am that number 2 but I’d be totally fine with an upgrade to a 1.5 

Let’s be fair, if one’s budget stretches to. Leica, why not. I don’t believe that you get a better camera/lens for your cash but you do get a nicer one and the styling might not improve your photos but it is gorgeous. 

Edited February 23 by Dazzajl

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[evikne]

50 minutes ago, Dazzajl said:

And yet I’ve not seen a single person on this forum identify as that person. It’s certainly an interesting dynamic and why it’s much harder for Leica than any other maker to identify who they should be making products for. 

We've seen several examples of new members who have bought the latest M and a bundle of the most expensive lenses and don't know how to use a rangefinder. They certainly fall into category 1.

[jaapv]

58 minutes ago, Dazzajl said:

And yet I’ve not seen a single person on this forum identify as that person. It’s certainly an interesting dynamic and why it’s much harder for Leica than any other maker to identify who they should be making products for. 

Oh,,they pass by from time to time - and usually disappear after a few posts.