EVF M rumoured

[3D-Kraft.com]

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vor einer Stunde schrieb jaapv:

You could have contacts in the flange but what would they transmit from a lens that has no electronics inside? 

As we are talking about the future of the M system, it may include the option to add electronics to future lenses. We need to think outside the box.

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[Smudgerer]

50 minutes ago, pgk said:

The M1, MD, MDA and MD2 were all 'specialist' cameras and I could see using an M shaped camera with evf and shutter speed and nothing much more, on various set-ups for a variety of technical applications. I currently use a Sony A7 series for these. But its not going to happen because the buyer base would be too small and any viable price way too high. And in any case the Sony delivers perfectly viable results. The Achillies' Heel of the M is paradoxically, its lenses. Any evfM will work in a similar way to a Sony with M lenses fitted. Sure it might be possible to modify it to operate with M lenses like a Sony does with Loxia lenses but then the Sony fills this niche alread and will remain a far cheaper option for sure.

The problem Leica have is that some want an SL type camera in an M type body but haven't thought through the consequences of building such a camera. If it takes only M lenses it is compromised in that it is a niche product within a niche. If it can take anything else or requires a new series of electronically controlled lenses (with M mount) then it is never going to be an economic proposition as its appeal has to compete against a lot of existing, highly competent system from other makers (and there are numerous technical issues which would compromise its functionality too).

Another thoughtful post....thank you

[UliWer]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb 3D-Kraft.com:

As we are talking about the future of the M system, it may include the option to add electronics to future lenses. We need to think outside the box.

Yes! The rumored camera will have a larger diameter for the lens mount so you are not limited to the M lenses and can use L-mount lenses as well. They even might offer a model with fixed lens and many electronic devices to „support“ this lens.

You think these models exist already with a red dot on them? Never mind, we need to think outside the box.

[Olaf_ZG]

1 hour ago, elmars said:

 

You shouldn't expect too much from an EVF-M in the first step.

I think freezing is reasonable to expect…

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

As we are talking about the future of the M system, it may include the option to add electronics to future lenses. We need to think outside the box.

Which would bloat the lenses and thus negate one of the essentials of the M system: lenses as small as possible and the quality as high as possible. 

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 42 Minuten schrieb UliWer:

You think these models exist already with a red dot on them? Never mind, we need to think outside the box.

If you mean the SL line (rebadged Panasonic and for that way too expensive): Too bulky. People are looking for the M form factor and something that is still different to that, what you get from others already with a more reasonable price tag.

[jaapv]

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48 minutes ago, UliWer said:

Yes! The rumored camera will have a larger diameter for the lens mount so you are not limited to the M lenses and can use L-mount lenses as well. They even might offer a model with fixed lens and many electronic devices to „support“ this lens.

You think these models exist already with a red dot on them? Never mind, we need to think outside the box.

M system.  Either Messucher or M mount. There would be nothing left. If would just be a bastardized camera of no attraction to anybody. B-system?  In that case a small SL with the adapter would be more logical. The S5iiwould be a precursor. Clean up the buttons ( although I don’t mind the UI, it is actually quite good), make it a bit more rangefinder shaped like the CL and use an M lens optimized sensor. Future miniaturized components might make it possible. 

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

Which would bloat the lenses and thus negate one of the essentials of the M system: lenses as small as possible and the quality as high as possible. 

A chip that can transmit the focal length, the max aperture and some additional characteristics more safely than the 6-bit bar code and the position of the aperture ring? Nothing that would bloat a lens today. We are not yet talking about autofocus or OIS. That would be a different story.

[lct]

1 hour ago, UliWer said:

Yes! The rumored camera will have a larger diameter for the lens mount so you are not limited to the M lenses and can use L-mount lenses as well.

May i ask where this info comes from? I may have missed something but the EVF-M we've been discussing about here was the opposite of this i.e. a mere M-mount camera with an EVF in lieu of the RF, so the only lenses it is supposedly made for are M lenses and converted LTM ones, the same way as for any other M-mount camera.

Edited February 9 by lct

[jaapv]

Really? The sensors needed for aperture and focus plus the prints needed would certainly bloat the lenses considerably. 

 

4 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

A chip that can transmit the focal length, the max aperture and some additional characteristics more safely than the 6-bit bar code and the position of the aperture ring? Nothing that would bloat a lens today. We are not yet talking about autofocus or OIS. That would be a different story.

 

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 1 Minute schrieb jaapv:

Really? The sensors needed for aperture and focus plus the prints needed would certainly bloat the lenses considerably.

Your knowlegde about microelectronics and sensors seems to need an update.

[jaapv]

Microelectronics is not sufficient. The mechanics need to be linked and that is the problem. 
I would appreciate you enlightening present day lens makers. I have not seen a decently sized lens the last years…

[lct]

7 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

A chip that can transmit the focal length, the max aperture and some additional characteristics more safely than the 6-bit bar code and the position of the aperture ring? Nothing that would bloat a lens today. We are not yet talking about autofocus or OIS. That would be a different story.

How would such lenses work on my M3, M6J, M8.2 and M240? What would i do with the 6-bit codes of my current Leica lenses? What we are talking about is retro or backward compatibility.

[pgk]

4 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Microelectronics is not sufficient. The mechanics need to be linked and that is the problem. 
I would appreciate you enlightening present day lens makers. I have not seen a decently sized lens the last years…

Is dead easy jaapv. Simply replace the heavy, awkward parts with plastic sections which could have molded areas able to take all the electronics. And they'd be lighter too. Problem solved😆.

[3D-Kraft.com]

Gerade eben schrieb lct:

How would such lenses work on my M3, M6J, M8.2 and M240? What would i do with the 6-bit codes of my current Leica lenses? What we are talking about is retro or backward compatibility.

As the lenses would still be manually operated, the would not require to be "contacted" in order to be used. If the contacts do not sit in the same position as the 6-bit code, you still can also apply that for backward compatibility also to these lenses.

[TeleElmar135mm]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb pgk:

Is dead easy jaapv. Simply replace the heavy, awkward parts with plastic sections which could have molded areas able to take all the electronics. And they'd be lighter too. Problem solved😆.

... plastic sections? There is not much Scotch Heavy Water (better known as Scotch) to like such M-Lenses  

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 23 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

Microelectronics is not sufficient. The mechanics need to be linked and that is the problem.

Not really. There are many ways to determine the position of an aperture ring without mechanical contact. Seems to be difficult to think out of the box...

vor 23 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

I would appreciate you enlightening present day lens makers. I have not seen a decently sized lens the last years…

If you haven't seen, it does'nt mean there aren't any.

E.g. (Cosina) Voigtländer uses identical designs for many of their lenses with different mounts. Some of their E-/X-/Z-mount versions are able to transmit these data. Ok, their mount is different but I am sure, the electronics do not really need that extra space.

 

Edited February 9 by 3D-Kraft.com

[jaapv]

12 minutes ago, pgk said:

Is dead easy jaapv. Simply replace the heavy, awkward parts with plastic sections which could have molded areas able to take all the electronics. And they'd be lighter too. Problem solved😆.

Plastic? Leica users would keelhaul you… replacing composite by brass allows Leica to charge double the price for Panasonic and Sigma lenses. 

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[davidmknoble]

36 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Which would bloat the lenses and thus negate one of the essentials of the M system: lenses as small as possible and the quality as high as possible. 

@jaapv is exactly right.  In addition, the M lenses - new ones - have increased contrast in pretty incredible ways.  The APO 50 summicron is incredibly tight and the APO 35 is so good they made an SL lens that is about the same.

More importantly, there is not a camera system on the planet besides the M that will let you interchange 1950 lenses and bodies with new lenses and bodies.

[davidmknoble]

I have to agree with @jaapv on this one @3D-Kraft.com.

At the end of the day, I highly doubt that Leica will add yet another line in their already bloated lines. To create a ‘lens’ that doesn’t have a 6 bit coding means it is not compatible with any other digital M.  With electric contacts (think back to R ROM lenses) you still could not use them on older M’s of any type without destroying the contacts. And all of that is if the mount is the same.

And in reality, there has to be a mechanical linkage to the f/stop to keep it smaller even if slightly larger than existing lenses.  Either you have a manual f/stop ring, which needs at the minimum contacts to mechanically tell the rotation, or it needs to be an electric f/stop requiring motors.  Both would require chips in the lens and right now every M lens is a mechanical shell with threads and glass to move the optics made out of solid pieces of aluminum or brass. So, the casing must be larger for either option.

The only way to take an M lens and add electronics is, the SL lens or the old R ROM lens technology.  So, I go back to my initial preface, why would Leica add a new lens line that is incompatible with everything else they make?

Edited February 9 by davidmknoble
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