jaapv Posted March 5 Share #361 Posted March 5 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, pgk said: Which M is that?😆 Agfa and Leica had close ties in the far past possibly one of the Click or Clack models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 5 Posted March 5 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Why the M needs IBIS. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
algrove Posted March 5 Share #362 Posted March 5 2 hours ago, pgk said: Which M is that?😆 VERY old. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 5 Share #363 Posted March 5 1 hour ago, algrove said: VERY old. I must have bought it in the sixties if it is the Agfa Silette. Much superior a camera than the M11 😉 since slow shutter speeds were usable with no problem then. My hands were (a bit) more solid though to be honest 🙄 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/419064-why-the-m-needs-ibis/?do=findComment&comment=5767752'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 5 Share #364 Posted March 5 This is most likely an Agfa Optima. Agfa used this lens on dozens of models, both with a proper distance scale and the el-dumbo 😉 one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetPhoto Posted March 5 Share #365 Posted March 5 6 hours ago, jaapv said: Do you mean zone misfocusing? Zone focusing does not exist. You don’t focus, you gamble whether the unsharpness will be acceptable. Like using buckshot in a sniper rifle. voightlander was doing it on the vitomatic II with no issues. just adjust the scale mark on aperture and focus knob to the same icon, and your good to go. sure it was using an actual aperture that gave actual depth of field.. but f/8 is better then most people manage with f/2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetPhoto Posted March 5 Share #366 Posted March 5 its funny, my stupid self can hand hold down to 1/30 or 1/8 most days just fine. windy days, not so well. but im smart,, i learned to only hit the button when im actually centered on my content. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 5 Share #367 Posted March 5 Advertisement (gone after registration) 31 minutes ago, PetPhoto said: voightlander was doing it on the vitomatic II with no issues. just adjust the scale mark on aperture and focus knob to the same icon, and your good to go. sure it was using an actual aperture that gave actual depth of field.. but f/8 is better then most people manage with f/2 And then you made contact prints @ 6x9... 😆 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3D-Kraft.com Posted March 5 Share #368 Posted March 5 (edited) vor 23 Stunden schrieb jonoslack: I would say that 3200 on the M240 is roughly equivalent to 25,000 on the M11 - so 4 stops. That would be 3 stops. After I already answered this in another thread, where this theory (5 stops difference) also came up, here again: According to DXOMark measurements, there is about 1.5 stops difference in the dynamic range. Anything else may be subjective e.g. by different ways of handling and perceiving the noise. I do not have a direct comparison between M240 and M11, but taken from my archive, ISO 3200 wasn't too bad on the M240. Base ISO (200): Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ISO 3200: Both SOOC (strictly out of cam). The scene is not particularly challenging, but I think that the image at 25600 ISO from the M11 would have shown more visible losses. Edited March 5 by 3D-Kraft.com Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ISO 3200: Both SOOC (strictly out of cam). The scene is not particularly challenging, but I think that the image at 25600 ISO from the M11 would have shown more visible losses. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/419064-why-the-m-needs-ibis/?do=findComment&comment=5767850'>More sharing options...
hillavoider Posted March 6 Share #369 Posted March 6 (edited) 22 hours ago, SrMi said: What do you mean by not anymore? M11 is an excellent low light camera especially when on a tripod. 17 hours ago, jaapv said: Really? Amply compensated by improved ISO performance. Remember the M8? sorry excuse me, I should have written, not when hand held, i find it really frustrating on the street at night, not impossible, just annoyingly difficult even with a 1.4 or 0.95 Edited March 6 by hillavoider Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raizans Posted March 6 Author Share #370 Posted March 6 On 3/5/2025 at 3:24 AM, jaapv said: Like using buckshot in a sniper rifle. I always did like William Eggleston’s analogy of how rangefinders are used like shotguns, and SLRs like rifles. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted March 6 Share #371 Posted March 6 2 hours ago, raizans said: I always did like William Eggleston’s analogy of how rangefinders are used like shotguns, and SLRs like rifles. An interesting article about Eggleston which also discusses the analogy mentioned: William Eggleston: Myth and Reality 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 7 Share #372 Posted March 7 15 hours ago, SrMi said: An interesting article about Eggleston which also discusses the analogy mentioned: William Eggleston: Myth and Reality 18 hours ago, raizans said: I always did like William Eggleston’s analogy of how rangefinders are used like shotguns, and SLRs like rifles. I did not read that article yet. 😉 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
don daniel Posted March 7 Share #373 Posted March 7 Am 5.3.2025 um 19:30 schrieb 3D-Kraft.com: That would be 3 stops. In my opinion it is 2 stops. With the M240 noise is okay at ISO 3200, but if you push the shadows only a little it results in banding. With the M10 you can use ISO 6400 safely. With the M10-R you can still use ISO6400, but not much more. With the M11 you can use ISO 12500. Now if you use AI Denoise in LR those 12500 look like base ISO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 7 Share #374 Posted March 7 On 3/6/2025 at 10:48 AM, SrMi said: An interesting article about Eggleston which also discusses the analogy mentioned: William Eggleston: Myth and Reality Except that in the attached, he doesn’t distinguish between rangefinders and SLRs; rather the more general concept of looking through the VF vs shooting more freely. Good article. The practice of turning a pic (or print) upside down for evaluation is one that I adopted long ago, beginning when I was using a LF view camera, as well as when I attended a drawing class that used that method. I like that LR has a quick tool for flipping a pic. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted March 10 Share #375 Posted March 10 "Why the M needs IBIS?" -- Because it doesn't. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillavoider Posted March 10 Share #376 Posted March 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, setuporg said: "Why the M needs IBIS?" -- Because it doesn't. What's your technique for low light then? i really want to use this camera more Edited March 10 by hillavoider 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillavoider Posted March 10 Share #377 Posted March 10 (edited) The up coming Fujifilm 100mp fixed lens camera doesn't have IBIS supposedly.... if it doesn't have OIS either, then thats going to be one touchy camera Edited March 10 by hillavoider Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tseg Posted March 10 Share #378 Posted March 10 Leica M would financially benefit from IBIS because they can then launch a whole new range of post-IBIS M lenses intentionally designed softer with more “character” as the current generation (with close focus and integrated hoods) will be deemed “over-clinical”. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DadDadDaddyo Posted March 10 Share #379 Posted March 10 Mm. Sometimes we veer toward wine-critic-speak... "Lithe, but persistent. One is amused by its impetuousness...." 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee S Posted March 10 Share #380 Posted March 10 (edited) 8 hours ago, hillavoider said: What's your technique for low light then? i really want to use this camera more A higher shutter speed and let the blacks be blacks (I learnt that from someone else on here). Modern camera sensors are fantastic in low light. I took this pot shot last night on the way home chasing my daughter on her bike. Didn’t have chance to lower shutter speed. ISO6400 - 1/90th sec - F4. Image is also cropped significantly by 3 (equivalent focal length of 105mm) which magnifies the viewable noise. Yes there is noise, I could have gotten it much sharper and lower noise if I stopped for a second shot, lowered shutter speed and opened the apeture. I bet some AI Deniose would clean it up really nicely. Moonlight: 35mm C-Biogon Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited March 10 by Lee S 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/419064-why-the-m-needs-ibis/?do=findComment&comment=5770121'>More sharing options...
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