Lenses — which ones should I get

[grug norgy]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hey my lovely Leica friends, 

I currently own the following lenses 

summicron f/2.0 50mm 4th e39

summilux f/1.4 35mm aspherical prod 33639:4 

 

I love my summilux 35mm lens so much, it’s so beautiful … I am thinking about getting a 28mm lens, and 90mm lens as well as perhaps something better to replace the 50, - am I correct in assuming the summiluxes are have better optics quality  than the summicrons ,  anyone know how to navigate the insane amount of lens choice, I’d want to buy used to make it economically viable but would want to buy the best lenses. 

 

Does any one have suggestions of what lenses to buy or have a tip on how to navigating choosing the right lens ? Is newer better ? 
 

Thank you so much in advance, 

 

greg 

 

Edited November 9, 2024 by grug norgy

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[a.noctilux]

Hello Greg.

I can not help much.

Take the one (or more) to try out.

10 minutes ago, grug norgy said:

summilux f/1.4 35mm aspherical prod 33639:4

Strange #33639xx can not be "asph." or aspherical Summilux 35mm.

Are you certain for that ?

...

From Wiki (as usual errors can occur) ...

35mm f/1.4 Aspherical Summilux-M Serial Numbers

Serial numbers compiled from known lenses and Puts Pocket Pod.pdf

SN Start	SN End	Product	Year	Total
3459071	3462070	35mm f/1.4 Aspherical Summilux-M	1988	3000
3627901	3628400	35mm f/1.4 Aspherical Summilux-M	1993	500
3635601	3636100	35mm f/1.4 Aspherical Summilux-M	1993	500
TOTAL	ASSIGNED	SERIAL NUMBERS	1988-1993	4,000

Lens superseded by 35mm f/1.4 ASPH Summilux-M

35mm f/1.4 ASPH Summilux-M Serial Numbers

Serial numbers compiled from known lenses and Puts Pocket Pod.pdf
~ stolen lens, please report if found on sale

SN Start	SN End	Product	Year	Total
3636101	3637100	35mm f/1.4 ASPH Summilux-M (black)	1993	1000
3659331	3660330	35mm f/1.4 ASPH Summilux-M (black)	1994	1000
3670031	3671030	35mm f/1.4 ASPH Summilux-M (black)	1995	1000
3704803	3705802	35mm f/1.4 ASPH Summilux-M (black)	1995	1000
3710003	3711002	35mm f/1.4 ASPH Summilux-M (titan)	1995	1000
3730291	3731290	35mm f/1.4 ASPH Summilux-M (silver)	1996	1000

[spydrxx]

Are you building a collection or do you plan to use the lenses? What do your present lenses not deliver, and what do you expect of the lenses you propose to buy? You say you want the best, but how do you define that....a given lens may be the best for a certain purpose, but not for another. Or are you just trying to accumulate the most expensive in a given range? Answers to these questions can help people make better recommendations. Details, details!

[jaapv]

3 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Nothing in the Summilux range beays the APO summicron 35 and 50.

Certainly, on pixel-peep level.

I personally think that more characterful lenses are preferable. For instance the old Elmarit M 28 version iv is unbeatable IMO.

[lct]

6 hours ago, grug norgy said:

I currently own the following lenses 

summicron f/2.0 50mm 4th e39

summilux f/1.4 35mm aspherical prod 33639:4 

I love my summilux 35mm lens so much, it’s so beautiful … I am thinking about getting a 28mm lens, and 90mm lens as well as perhaps something better to replace the 50

To match your Summilux 35 asph and depending on your budget i would get another asph lens.

28: Summilux 28/1.4 aph, Summicron 28/2 asph, or Elmarit 28/2.8 asph.

90: Summicron 90/2 apo, Summarit 90/2.4, or Macro-Elmar 90/4.

50: Summilux 50/1.4 asph or Summicron 50/2 apo.

Happy snaps 🙂

[IkarusJohn]

Not sure which 35 Summilux you have, but if that lens and focal length is the base of your system, then perhaps think about a 75mm?

Many people love the 75 APO Summicron.  I wasn’t a fan, and sold mine in preference for the 75 Summilux.  I also sold my 90 APO Summicron - too big, and I felt 90mm was just a step too far for the M9 I had at the time.

For wides, the 28 Summilux is stellar, but is very close to 28mm in many respects.  I prefer the slightly wider field of view of the 28.  You could look out for a 24mm Summilux, if you can find one.

For 50mm, many favour the 50 you have (Overgaard?).  I have a number of 50s in M mount, and the APO Summicron is the most modern, compact and very good, but my favourites are the 0.95 Noctilux and 50 Summilux ASPH (v1).  They have very similar rendering, with their own character.

[3D-Kraft.com]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

vor 8 Stunden schrieb grug norgy:

I’d want to buy used to make it economically viable but would want to buy the best lenses. 

Does any one have suggestions of what lenses to buy or have a tip on how to navigating choosing the right lens ? Is newer better ?

"The best" in which regards? Resolution? Character? Lovely looking?

Is your question bound to Leica lenses or do you also take other brands into account?

[RexGig0]

10 hours ago, grug norgy said:

Hey my lovely Leica friends, 

I currently own the following lenses 

summicron f/2.0 50mm 4th e39

summilux f/1.4 35mm aspherical prod 33639:4 

 

I love my summilux 35mm lens so much, it’s so beautiful … I am thinking about getting a 28mm lens, and 90mm lens as well as perhaps something better to replace the 50, - am I correct in assuming the summiluxes are have better optics quality  than the summicrons ,  anyone know how to navigate the insane amount of lens choice, I’d want to buy used to make it economically viable but would want to buy the best lenses. 

 

Does any one have suggestions of what lenses to buy or have a tip on how to navigating choosing the right lens ? Is newer better ? 
 

Thank you so much in advance, 

 

greg 

 

Greetings!

“Better” means different things to different people. The currently-produced Summicron-M 50mm f/2 lens is generally known as Version V, but, the optical elements are the same as the Version IV, unchanged since 1979, and, the last time I looked, Leica does still uses Version IV to describe today’s Summicron. Lens coatings, and minor details have changed, but a Summicron-M 50mm lens, made today, will not be much different than what you have.

Of course, the APO Summicron-M 50mm ASPH will be more-perfectly-optically-corrected than a standard Summicron 50mm IV/V, but, that is only better if the shooter likes the results, in the images. 

Is a Summilux “better” than a Summicron? Well, depending upon the individual photographer wants, maybe not. My favorite Leica M-mount lens is the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, 2004/2005 version, THE lens that drove me to add the Leica M system, in 2018. It has what I came to know as a Peter Karbe “signature,” in its rendering. I soon added a Summicron-M 50mm lens, made during what is regarded as the Version V era, which has a nice, classic Walter Mandler design era “signature.” Unless I need to shoot wide-open, I may well choose the Summicron. There is not one, single “Leica look.” It is more complex than that.

Last year, I added a Cosina Voigtlander APO Lanthar 50mm VM, for its modern flare resistance, and highly-correctly optics. There are times that the harsh sunlight may be at an angle that would cause problems with flare, if I were to use a Summilux or Summicron. Something may be happening, that just cannot wait for ideal lighting conditions. The APO Lanthar plays well at this level, probably out-performing Leica’s APO Summicron-M 50mm ASPH, in mitigating flare. If I want to shoot a portrait, in light that I can control, I would be more likely to select my beloved Summilux. If I were to be tasked with photographing a motor vehicle crash scene, or a crime scene, or hurricane/hurricane damage, for evidentiary or documentary purposes, and had to use a Leica M camera, I would select the APO Lanthar. Match the tool, or the artist’s paintbrush, to the task. 

Edited November 9, 2024 by RexGig0

[grug norgy]

@a.noctilux I guess Wikipedia typo. 

This is from my receipt from the Leica store  

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[grug norgy]

@spydrxx Hello spydrxx, I guess I am so new to the Leica world, I have owned my camera for a few years but just only really found my love for it.  It’s taken me to find a way to make good pictures with the camera.  I  recently I got some rolls back from my 35mm, the resolution, sharpness, the feeling of the lens it was so beautiful.  The delicate contrast,  the bokeh — it feels so special . 
 
I’d say for my photography consists of street photography, portraits and urban landscapes and details of landscapes , I’m less inclined to shoot a a vast Ansell Adams wide landscape of a mountain range then, a vignette of some waves, or a gas station. I don’t often shoot super wide open, I like to hover above f4 when I can .

I am definitely not trying to acquire the most expensive kit, I would actually love to do the opposite .. for example if lens a had 9.5/10 optical quality in all its aspects, it was revered for its glass, resolution, fall off, natural rendering of light transitions - then there lens b that was 9/10 but it was 1500 dollar cheaper, then lens c was 10/10 and 1000 dollar more expensive, I’d be torn between a and b, but probably get b

I hope this gives more context for the type of lens I think I want . Hopefully this is helpful  thank you  

[spydrxx]

Thanks for the update. Given your shooting preferences, I'd suggest sticking with the 50 Summicron you presently have, unless you do a lot of low light photography and actually NEED the extra light capturing capability of either a Summilux or Noctilux. IMHO the build quality isn't necessarily better, but size and weight are greater...not really great if you are out all day doing street photography. The 90 Summicron (choose whichever model) produces gorgeous portraits, especially wide open. When I started my Leica journey in 1968 I was taken aback by really outstanding B&W wedding photos with a 90 Summicron...shot wide open. However when I got my hands on one a couple of years later, the weight was such that after a few months I sold it, and mostly stayed away from that focal length until recently. I usually shoot in the f/4-5.6 range and found, much to my surprise, that the  older Elmar really fit my needs, mostly in nature photography...and a bonus was that the head was detachable so I could use it on my bellows...does it give beautiful bokeh...no, but slightly muted sharp B&W photos both on my film and digital bodies. Although I have an older 28, I haven't yet really bonded with it. I had an Elmarit and a Zeiss Biogon, both of which many people really love. They didn't do the job for me, and I got a much older (and less expensive) Canon28/3.5 which I'm presently using on my Barnacks, M bodies, and digital bodies...and I like the diminutive size, colors and resolution. In your case, I encourage you if you can, to go a Leica dealer and try out some of the options in the focal length of your choice. For me ergonomics and ease of rapid focusing are critical considerations, but your needs may well be different.

[fil-m]

8 hours ago, RexGig0 said:

There is not one, single “Leica look.” It is more complex than that.

I could not agree more with @RexGig0 statement which stuck in my head. And I would say that the Con 50's look (or signature) since the first "rigid version" up to the most recent V is indeed quite special and unique, and way beyond what its relatively low price (per Leica standard) might suggest. What is equally amazing, is to consider how its signature evolved only in very subtle ways throughout half a century, since the rigid and up to the current V version, which makes it kind of "timeless". In other words, despite the fact that I have a Noct 50/1 & 1.2 reissue and also had a Lux 50 Asph, I could replace all of them with my Cron Rigid v1 (which cost me less than 1k) or a slightly more modern IV/V without much regret. 

Back to your original question, and considering that you often shoot f4 and beyond, any Elmarit 28mm pre-asph (last edition) or even the Asph if you want more compact and sharper will do (the elmarit 28 asph is an understated, great little street shooter). Also, note that the Cron 28 first version is available at affordable prices now even if it is less sharp in the corners that its last (current) third version evolution in case you need the occasional f2 shot. If you want to experiment wider, the Elmar 24/3.8 is really really special, you can look for images made with this lens in this forum. 

The 75 Apo is interesting for a longer focal. Very high performance.

If you are keen on 90mm, there are many choices, you can even start and experiment with a cheap Elmarit 90 or "standard" Cron 90 before considering its APO version assuming you create a bond with that focal and want sharper and better corrected. The Macro-Elmar 90/4 is also interesting and quite compact if this matters and if you are not looking for shallow DOF. Good luck!

[ktmrider2]

“Better” is in the eye of the beholder or user.  Early in my 49 years of using Leica, I defined better as being the same as “faster”.  I no longer hold to that definition.  I am 71 years old, faster almost always means heavier, and since I no longer shoot in “available darkness”, I prefer smaller and lighter lenses.  I own 6 M mount lenses and have a couple duplicate focal lengths.  My present travel trio is a 35f2.8 C-Biogon which may be the sharpest 35 made, the 50f2.8 Elmar Collapsable II (black one is lightest M lens Leica ever made) and a 90 f2.8 Elmar M.  Usually they are mounted on an MP loaded with Ektar 100.  I find the f2.8 aperture adequate for all but the most extreme conditions.  It was not that long ago that ISO 400 was considered “fast”.

I have had faster 35’s and 50’s and sold all of them.  The 50 Elmar was purchased last February to go on my new MP.  Since then, my 50f1.2 has not been on a body.  Again, better can have a lot of parameters besides optical results.

One advantage of using a camera whose lens mount is over 70 years old is the variety of lenses available including LTM versions which go back even further into the depths of time.  Have fun in your exploration of lenses.  I have been having fun with Leicas since 1975.  And no matter what anyone says “Welcome to the cult.”

[a.noctilux]

5 hours ago, grug norgy said:

This is from my receipt from the Leica store

Very strange if Prod. Num. is the serial number.

Serial number never has ",".

Might be (design) something else.

 

Maybe you can provide a picture of the lens front with designation/serial number ?

Well this has no importance anyway.

If the lens suits you, your practice this is important.

 

I think 50mm or 75mm can enhance well the 35mm  lens.

Plenty of choices in Leica or third parties.

Edited November 10, 2024 by a.noctilux

[RexGig0]

On 11/9/2024 at 6:14 AM, grug norgy said:

“…am I correct in assuming the summiluxes are have better optics quality  than the summicrons ,  anyone know how to navigate the insane amount of lens choice…”

 

Actually, in the case of several lenses in the Leica M line, the Summicron is generally considered to be better-optically-corrected than its Summilux brother, in the same focal length. Optical compromises have sometimes been made, in order to engineer the wider maximum aperture. In some of these cases, the Summilux has to be stopped-down, considerably, in order to be “as good” as its Summicron brother.

My own favored Fifty, the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, has aperture blades that can create “saw-toothed/ninja-star” bokeh effects, especially with out-of-focus points of light, in part of the aperture range. One can avoid this, by shooting either wide-open, or stopped down to f/5.6 or smaller. One can also choose to use a different 50mm lens, and, well, I have accumulated more than a few 50mm M-mount lenses. (The recently-marketed Version II may have differently-shaped aperture blades, to mitigate this effect. I simply do not know.)

”APO” is a marketing term, derived from “apochromat.” Some Leica lense are labeled “APO,” and at least one, the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, has a considerable degree of apochromatic correction, but is/is not marketed as “APO.” An APO lens will be more-optically-corrected, but, will/may have “lost” some of the “character/signature” that many Leica shooters desire.

”ASPH” is a marketing term that refers to “aspherical.” An ASPH lens will be more-optically-corrected, but, will/may have “lost” some of the “character/signature” that many Leica shooters desire.

There are members of this forum, and other forums, who have openly stated that they prefer pre-/non-APO lenses, and/or pre-/non-ASPH lenses, for all of their work. Other shooters, who favor the Peter Karbe-era lenses, for the optical correction choices made by him and his design team, have embraced the APO ASPH lenses. 

Your Summicron-M 50mm Version IV was designed by Walter Mandler, who has his own devoted fans.

Edited November 10, 2024 by RexGig0

[IkarusJohn]

In each focal length, there will be stella Karbe and Mandler era lenses.  One of the charms of the M system is the massive choice of lenses - not just aperture options, but APO, ASPH, FLE and those without those designations.

My approach has been to identify the focal lengths I like (21-28-35-50-75) then identify the different lenses in a chosen focal length.  Size and weight are less an issue for me.  Stella lenses (for me) are the 35 APO Summicron ASPH (modern, small and lovely bokeh); 75 Summiux (Mandler’s favourite lens, apparently - a two trick pony, soft open and sharp stopped down); 50 Summilux ASPH (flawed, but full of character); 28 Summilux ASPH (modern); and 21 SEM ASPH (don’t have it, but small, sharp and much loved).

Have fun - the forum is a great resource.

[RexGig0]

To add a bit to post #16, above, APO lenses will have varying degrees of apochromatic correction. Apochromatic correction is not an all-or-nothing thing. 

In the case of some third-party lens manufacturers/brands, APO may be used as a marketing term, in spite of little to no noticeable apochromatic correction. 

”Aspherical” is a physically verifiable lens element shape.

[Danner]

IMHO, Summilux range is not inherently superior to the Summicron range.  For example, having both 50's, I prefer the Summicron.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[hansvons]

3 hours ago, Danner said:

IMHO, Summilux range is not inherently superior to the Summicron range.  For example, having both 50's, I prefer the Summicron.

Exactly. Summicrons are lighter, and Summiluxes are faster. Both have their use case. I prefer Summicrons for their smaller footprint, preferably the 35mm ASPH (sharp AND character) and the 50mm V4 (because it has a tab). However, the 35mm Summilux V2 pre-ASPH is an interesting candidate as it's relatively tiny for its speed (compact double Gauss design) but doesn't glow like a 1.0 Promist Black filter at f/1.4 like its predecessors (still pretty soft, though) if you find one with intact coatings, preferably from the late 80ies, early 90ies. Despite the tamed "Leica glow", it still renders '70s-like. Like the 35mm Summicron ASPH V1 from the 90ies, it's a sleeper. Steel Rim, 8-Elements, and KOB steal the show with their fancy names but not with their character. Totally subjective, of course.

Edited November 10, 2024 by hansvons

[lct]

Different feeling here. I have no experience with current Summilux 50/1.4 asph v2 but the v1 of it has more acutance than Summicrons v4 & v5. Also less flare and less focus shift. Not to say  that i prefer one or another. I don't use the Summilux asph for gentle portraits, it is too harsh for my taste, but for landscapes, the Summilux asph is hard to beat. YMMV.