Which analog Leica M body was built best?

[jensthoes]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hello,

I  work/worked with a M3, three M6s and a MP à la carte.

The M3 was and is my best camera.

Best regards,

Jens

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[otto.f]

6 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Gunter Osterloh - Umschau Verlag - 1986

M4 - 138 X 77 X 36 - 600 grams

I can't imagine that the respected Gunter Osterloh did not make a mistake here, as all other M4 variants have 545g grams. Here's another quite trustworthy source:

 

 

[Stuart Richardson]

I imagine this is an unpopular opinion, but for me it is the M7. I have not had all the M's, but several over the years. The reason I say the M7 is not because of reliability. Mine has not been super reliable. But because of the ergonomics and features. The electronically controlled shutter mechanism is not liked among purists because it cannot be used at all speeds without a battery, but what it gives you is very accurate and consistent exposures at all speeds over many years. In my experience it is also the quietest M, because you do not hear any escapement buzzing at slow speeds. Just a light click, silence, and another click. For shooting chrome the stepless AE is a noticeable improvement, because instead of half stops, the shutter will expose exactly to what the meter indicates. 1/3rd or 1/4 stop intervals are noticeable in slides, though not critical. I also find that the viewfinder is a improvement over early models, not just for the design improvements making it clearer and less prone to flare, but because of the unobtrusive speed numbers being visible, and small quality of life improvements. For example, when using bulb mode the shutter speed counts up in the VF when you are holding down the shutter, if I recall correctly. It also counts down the time for long exposures. Having DX coding and AE is really nice if you want to use your camera as a workhorse. I would add TTL flash metering to this too. I am not saying it is required, or that people cannot prefer having no meter at all, but I think the M7 was great for having the most technology and the most features for working photographers of all the M's, including the ones being build today.

Edited October 4, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[MarkP]

The M3 with just a 50mm lens mounted is a delight to use.
However, I agree with Stuart about the M7.  for me it is the most versatile of the M film cameras and the film M camera I usually reach for first. 
It's a shame that Leica hasn't reissued the M7.

 

[TomB_tx]

I thought "best built" meant sound design, workmanship. fit & finish, etc. Answers here seem to be talking about features. Often more features means more complex assembly, more chances for mistakes.

[pgk]

This is one of those questions which will need a poll to sort out the answers as everyone will have their own favourite (in spite of the caveats in the question). Personally I would say that the M4 was probably the best built in that it was the most mature and comprehensively featured, whilst still sufficiently simplistic (4 frame lines), Leica built before cost cutting started to creep in. I've owned several M4s including a couple of very battered ones. All have worked flawlessly, surprisingly. The same cannot be said for M3s and M4-2s that I've also owned. I have had too few M2s or M4Ps to comment but M6s have also been reliable. My caveats are that no camera with elecronics will be as reliable as a fully mechanical camera simply because the electonics will finally fail (CLs, M5/6/7s) and that early cameras had features abandoned because they were found to be less viable than hoped.

[Al Brown]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

4 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

I thought "best built" meant sound design, workmanship. fit & finish, etc. Answers here seem to be talking about features. Often more features means more complex assembly, more chances for mistakes.

I specifically called for each and every one to name their own "best". I am not asking for best built, evident from my initial paragraph in post #1.

Edited October 4, 2024 by Al Brown

[Al Brown]

13 hours ago, m410 said:

Good luck with your search. 

 

Thank you. I am not searching, just gathering opinion.

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

I am not asking for best built, evident from my initial paragraph in post #1

Oh yes you are, according to the thread title. Or do you mean that "built best" is different from "best built"?

And your post #1 said "ergonomics, could be the build quality, could be the mechanism". Could it include aesthetics, features?

We need a better definition of 'built best'.

This could turn into a classic thread.

💥🤷‍♂️🙀🍹

[Tom R]

20 hours ago, hansvons said:

I find for the money the M4P the best analogue M. Cocking my copy’s shutter is exceptionally satisfying. The other M I use even more often because it has a light meter is an early M6 Classic. It’s the more practical camera but less joyful. I’ll get at some point a 2022 M6, assuming that it’s the pinnical of the M series regarding usability and ergonomics (viewfinder, rewind crank)—or not, as the M6 and M4P are already brilliant photographic tools. 

I regularly use both M4 and M4-Ps, and I certainly cannot tell one from the other looking at the negatives. Nor do I find much of a difference in use—but, I prefer the M4’s overall “feel” and its viewfinder. I’m told by more than a few technicians who have worked on these cameras over the decades that the M4 has better ‘seals’ than the M4-P, and is mechanically superior … but I do not recall the details. I do prefer the M4-P when I use a 28mm or when I am using external lighting because these are supported without “attachments.".

[LocalHero1953]

6 minutes ago, Tom R said:

I regularly use both M4 and M4-Ps, and I certainly cannot tell one from the other looking at the negatives. Nor do I find much of a difference in use—but, I prefer the M4’s overall “feel” and its viewfinder. I’m told by more than a few technicians who have worked on these cameras over the decades that the M4 has better ‘seals’ than the M4-P, and is mechanically superior … but I do not recall the details. I do prefer the M4-P when I use a 28mm or when I am using external lighting because these are supported without “attachments.".

Is it a brass mechanicals vs steel thing? I think the M4-2 marked the switch to steel but I can't remember about the M4-P.

[Al Brown]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Oh yes you are, according to the thread title. Or do you mean that "built best" is different from "best built"?

💥🤷‍♂️🙀🍹

Thread titles are such clickbaits 😄

[Tom R]

6 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Is it a brass mechanicals vs steel thing? I think the M4-2 marked the switch to steel but I can't remember about the M4-P.

Yes, I recall hearing (the rumor) that the M4-2 and M4-P utilized stainless in place of brass. I heard that the M4-P was intended for the “Press” and stainless steel would be more durable (and less expensive).

Edited October 5, 2024 by Tom R
minor correction

[Michael Geschlecht]

15 hours ago, otto.f said:

I can't imagine that the respected Gunter Osterloh did not make a mistake here, as all other M4 variants have 545g grams. Here's another quite trustworthy source:

 

 

Hello Otto,

Thanx for the additional material.

The Schmidt, Hong Kong, Leica dealer catalog from April 1968 also says 600 grams for an M4.

Sometimes manufacturers of all types of things make changes during the production cycle of something.

The reason for my listing of the weights of the various film M's was to show that with the exception of the M5 (700 grams) many mechanical film M's weigh similar amounts. And to note that the dimensions (M3 = 138 X 77 X 36) have remained reasonably consistent. Again with the exception of the M5 (155 X 84 X 36).

Keeping in mind that a 36 exposure roll of Portra 160 weighs around 20 grams.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

Edited October 5, 2024 by Michael Geschlecht

[Al Brown]

6 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Keeping in mind that a 36 exposure roll of Portra 160 weighs around 20 grams.

Very similar to one's soul, according to Duncan MacDougall.

[Fotoklaus]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Tom R:

Yes, I recall hearing (the rumor) that the M4-2 and M4-P utilized stainless in place of brass. I heard that the M4-P was intended for the “Press” and stainless steel would be more durable (and less expensive).

And 50 years later we are still waiting for the first gear to break and which one is "better".

[costa43]

When I decided to shoot film again recently I tested out a few different M cameras and settled on the m5 as it was the best experience for me. I could take pics of my daughter whilst seeing my shutter speed in the viewfinder and ensuring it doesn’t go too low and the shutter dial is easily operated with one finger. Very underrated feature imo. I also like the line metering better than the dots on the m6 I tried as it provides an instant visual as to how over or under exposed I am and what I can get away with latitude wise. I tried an m4 and m3 also and both were great but I wanted a light meter as I take a lot of pics indoors under different lighting. The biggest negative in the design of the m5 for me is that the light meter activates when the shutter is cocked, leading to quicker battery drain if you shoot like I do and cock the shutter after every shot so it’s ready for the next one.

On a separate note, for purely superficial reasons, I will at some point pick up a black paint film camera, an MP or special release as I like the way they look and the idea of it aging alongside me over the years has appeal. 

Edited October 5, 2024 by costa43

[Al Brown]

31 minutes ago, Fotoklaus said:

And 50 years later we are still waiting for the first gear to break and which one is "better".

This forum is irrelevant for that sort of test as most cameras here get tourist use or display use. But I am willing to bet there were reporters out there who actually did see that difference and have had stuff break. This reminds me of the movie Hudsucker Proxy and its epic Paul Newman "double stitch" pants scene:
 

 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Fotoklaus]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb Al Brown:

This forum is irrelevant for that sort of test as most cameras here get tourist use or display use. But I am willing to bet there were reporters out there who actually did see that difference and have had stuff break. This reminds me of the movie Hudsucker Proxy and its epic Paul Newman "double stitch" pants scene:
 

 

That was one of the reasons switching to a newly designed steel gear train. To allow the safe use of winders. But all irrelevant for normal use.

And almost irrelevant for professional use as the M was very rarely used by reporters when the design changes have beend made.

Maybe there was a reason to make an MP and MP2 back then for Press usage. Very rare and hard to find now.

[ktmrider2]

I suspect we each have a very unscientific opinion as to which M model was built to the highest standard.  I would suggest that the standard of build at Leica was pretty much the same.  Now if things got moved to Canada or Portugal quality might have varied, especially just after the move occurred.  I have used every M film model except the M7 and MA.  Quality was pretty consistent across the board.

Edited October 5, 2024 by ktmrider2