How many analog Leicas does one need to have at least one functioning camera?

[Kl@usW.]

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In 2022, I finally lost interest in the digital rat race for ever faster sensors and sold all my digital Leica Ms. I wasn't naive enough to believe that the analog Ms were without fault and that I could delete the customer service address from my book. However, I was naive enough to believe that with a new chrome MP and a nearly new black lacquer MP, I would always have at least one camera available. Unfortunately, I was mistaken: After just under a year, the newly purchased chrome MP had to go in for service for the first time due to a major viewfinder misalignment. Two years later, there was a total failure due to light leaks—all the photos from a summer vacation were ruined. Since December 2023—so in a few days, it will be eight months—my newly purchased MP, which became defective shortly after the warranty expired, has been in Wetzlar. So far, not so good. Unfortunately, now my hardly older black lacquer MP has also become problematic: Upon first review of my results from a four-week vacation in Japan, several films also show light leaks—and, to keep things interesting, the viewfinder frame has decided to get stuck at the 35mm frame. Nothing works except 35mm, no matter which lens... To come back to my question, how many Leicas does one need to be "ready to shoot" or stay that way? The next vacation is around the corner. Apparently, two new Ms aren't enough.

[Pieter12]

All cameras are subject to eventual failure. The big downside is repair turnaround or the (also) eventual possibility of lack of parts or qualified technicians. I don't care much for vacation photos, let my wife take them on her smartphone. But if I have a serious project, I will always have two cameras--sometimes one analog and one digital. Too much stuff to lug around on vacation and still enjoy oneself.

[Fotoklaus]

My Ms are all working flawlessly. The youngest is from 1991. All of them had been serviced once, none of them needed a major repair. 

[TeleElmar135mm]

one (M2) - they are mot digital

Edited July 22, 2024 by TeleElmar135mm

[johnwolf]

I’m certainly with you on the digital rat race. So liberating to be free of that, isn’t it?

I must be lucky because I’ve always owned one film M at a time and have never had downtime.

I’d be reluctant to buy new from Leica. A warranty is pretty useless if service on it takes eight months or more. For out of warranty service Leica would be a last resort.

 

Edited July 22, 2024 by johnwolf

[TomB_tx]

I have filmM models 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 - buying the 4 & 6 new in 1968 and 1985 respectively. The M4 has been solid since new but had a CLA service after about 40 years to keep it in good condition. The M6 needed service after it was stored with batteries in it that leaked. I bought the M7 (which had been lightly used) this year, and it is now in for service because of sticking frame line mask, DAG has it, and he noted the sticky frame lines are quite common with M models made since 2000 or so.

Overall they have been very reliable, but were mostly made well before the current management of Leica - so while I trust the design of Leica Ms is very sound, I can't speak to the care used now with manufacturing, assembly, and service by Leica. I would note that when my M9 developed sensor glass corrosion after some 7 years of use, Leica repaired it for free and returned it in like new condition, even long after the warranty expired. 

[IkarusJohn]

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Got my M-A when the sensor corrosion appeared on the M9.

There was a lot of discussion at that time about how long an M should last.  10 years seemed to be the “wisdom” here.  Having used my FM2 faultlessly for more than double that before it died, I felt the price of a digital Leica was unreasonable.

No issue with my M-A, or my SWC for that matter.

[250swb]

My three Leica M’s all work very well and my MP bought in 2003 has never needed a service so far. That said I wouldn’t be without a Nikon (or two, or three) for film as well.

[spydrxx]

I owned an M4 for over 40 years during which it never failed nor needed a repair until it dropped onto the pavement during an ice storm and my carelessness. A couple of years ago I purchased an M2, which hasn't needed any repairs either. I have had most of my Barnack (screwmount) bodies CLA'd just because of their age (over 70 years old) and today they work fine. So my answer to your inquiry is only 1 well maintained fully analogue film body...digital I think it is a bit early to have that degree of confidence, same for recently produced M bodies due to the incorporation of electronics. Sorry to hear of your misfortunes, I hope you don't have any recurrences.

[Mute-on]

So the cameras you have purchased were new or nearly new, i.e., from post-digital Leica film production. This is not a coincidence IMO.

Your next “backup” should be an M2/M3 or an M4 variant. Chose carefully based on a physical inspection, and get a comprehensive CLA if required from an independent Leica technician, not Leica Wetzlar.

Good luck!

[Ko.Fe.]

I had never CLA"d ELC D'S M3. According to original seal. It worked.

And I have M4-2 which needed parts after use and still needs another part.

So, one needs one M4, 3, or 2.  For use. The second one could be anything for the time M4, 3, 2 needs service and parts.

But even M4-2 never failed on me even with not a vacation, but Winigrand"s way of use.

[AndreasG]

I have three film M cameras, a M4-P (1981), M6 (1986) and a second M6 (1991). Only the 1986 M6 once needed repair because the shutter got stuck.

[Smudgerer]

Six..........yes, I know, quite mad, but it creeps up on one doesn't it?.................M7-MP-M6TTL-M6 reissue- and one black and one silver M2. Recently sold a M10-D to get one of the M2's and pay for a full service on the 20 year old M7 whether it needed it or not, ( Leica-7 months ), costly but it was a worthwhile expense I think.

I still have three M10's, a M10-P, a M10R and a M10-M and I am seriously considering paring that brood down to two, maybe even one and put the proceeds into a film processor / darkroom "stuff". For film I process to a negative, ( always B&W ), then scan and print with Epson inkjet printers.

I have zero interest in buying another digital M or "trading up", there's no point for me in doing so.

Edited July 23, 2024 by Smudgerer
added content

[hansvons]

49 minutes ago, Smudgerer said:

I have zero interest in buying another digital M or "trading up", there's no point for me in doing so.

I in the same boat. However, I don't own a digital M, and my only digital camera is an SL2-S. So, I’m pondering to get an M10. But I won’t do that until the right job emerges and pays for it.

That said, I own a 1984 M6 and an M4P. Both are a fine cameras which recieved a proper CLA before I purchased them two years ago. In that time, I shot just about 400 rolls of BW and colour without any hiccups.

Because film cameras come in pairs, I have an R6 for backup when one of the Ms must see the doctor. If I hadn't the R6 and suitable lenses already, I would have another M for that, which would be the M4P, replaced by a 2022 M6. 

Summary: My Ms from the 80ies are a reliable pair. I will add another M6 to make my film pair more consistent, the M4P becomes the backup, plus an M10 for projects that require fast turnarounds. The SL2-S will stay for hybrid DSLR jobs and scanning. 

Edited July 23, 2024 by hansvons

[Stuart Richardson]

If you are particularly worried about Leica and don't want to put all your eggs in one basket, you could pick up a Konica Hexar RF or a Zeiss Ikon ZM. The Zeiss has an even better viewfinder than the Leica in my view, while the Hexar is a modernized version of an M camera, with motorized film advance, a higher shutter speed and AE. I eventually sold it for the M7, which has been only sporadically reliable for me. Right now it is boxed to send to Leica for service but I have not done it yet because the lead times being so long. It has to go to Leica themselves, unfortunately, because it is a metering issue and it was an a la carte model with different leather, so I don't think DAG etc can deal with it.

I have been shooting with Leica for almost twenty five years. In that time I have not regretted that decision, and I think they are great cameras, but they are not reliable in my experience. The only Leica that I have had a long time that has not needed some sort of repair is the SL2. The list of others is too long to bother with.

[Smudgerer]

22 minutes ago, hansvons said:

I in the same boat. However, I don't own a digital M, and my only digital camera is an SL2-S. So, I’m pondering to get an M10. But I won’t do that until the right job emerges and pays for it.

That said, I own a 1984 M6 and an M4P. Both are a fine cameras which recieved a proper CLA before I purchased them two years ago. In that time, I shot just about 400 rolls of BW and colour without any hiccups.

Because film cameras come in pairs, I have an R6 for backup when one of the Ms must see the doctor. If I hadn't the R6 and suitable lenses already, I would have another M for that, which would be the M4P, replaced by a 2022 M6. 

Summary: My Ms from the 80ies are a reliable pair. I will add another M6 to make my film pair more consistent, the M4P becomes the backup, plus an M10 for projects that require fast turnarounds. The SL2-S will stay for hybrid DSLR jobs and scanning. 

Pretty much the same situation for me too.........95% of what I photograph now is in B&W and print is always the intended medium for the picks I like, nothing web' posted except for the personal website. My colour imaging is I guess for casual / travel "snaps" and quite honestly a digital M is perhaps "too much of a camera" for that usage and I tend to use a Lumix GX-8 for those tasks nowadays, ( cheaper to lose or have snatched !), so the M10-P and the M10-R I could / should let go perhaps, but if push came to shove I would keep the M10-P over the M10-R, I really do not need the extra mp's and I do like 24mps for digital anyway.

Edited July 23, 2024 by Smudgerer

[hansvons]

26 minutes ago, Smudgerer said:

95% of what I photograph now is in B&W and print is always the intended medium for the picks I like, nothing web' posted except for the personal website.

Same again. But I also print colour, even preferably, from scanned 35mm cine stock negatives (5207, 5213, sometimes 5219). I figured that going all in would be the sensible thing to do, so I bought a brand-new Canon 44” printer that came with an interesting rebate, financing 3 rolls of fine Hahnemühle paper. 

[Danner]

I have a pair of M6 (1985 and 1987) and neither has ever failed, so I guess the answer is 'one M6' is sufficient.  However I sent one in to have the flare-resistance finder upgrade, and that took a few weeks.  Therefore, I'll adjust my response to 'two M6' its sufficient.

Your experience is unfortunate, and makes me wonder about the build quality at Leica these days?

Edited July 23, 2024 by Danner

[a.noctilux]

One "good" M is enough.

And one M as backup, in case.

Sadly, new Leica M are not as faultproof than the M made before.

Just an opinion.

Maybe oldtimer workers knew something (learned ! ) not transmitted to youngers ?

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Fotoklaus]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb a.noctilux:

One "good" M is enough.

And one M as backup, in case.

Sadly, new Leica M are not as faultproof than the M made before.

Just an opinion.

Maybe oldtimer workers knew something (learned ! ) not transmitted to youngers ?

 

Who wants to work as a craftsman anymore? They all struggle to find people for an apprenticeship.