Why I gave up on the Leica SL3

[Brian C in Az]

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5 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

X1Dii is smaller and lighter. That’s it. Everything else favours the X2D, especially if you’re off a tripod. It is faster, has better AF, IBIS, flip screen etc.

Generally you won’t notice much IQ differences unless you make big prints regularly (say over A1) but you will notice how good the IBIS is.

Gordon

Do you either one of these cameras?

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

3 hours ago, Brian C in Az said:

Do you either one of these cameras?

Yes. I own all the X cameras, still. X1D, 4116 edition, X1DII, 907x 50C and 2 x X2D’s and an Earth Explorer kit plus every native lens ever made for the system.

Gordon

[Cronilux]

vor 23 Stunden schrieb FlashGordonPhotography:

If you’re into fine art, travel, portraiture, street and landscapes there’s no better option.

How do you define street and travel photography? 

In my definition those can often be fast paced fleeting moments, where you don’t get a second chance. In my experience the SL3 will fail you badly way too many times in those scenarios. Pair it with a low light and it simply can’t grab focus in reasonable amount of time. 

I am quicker with my M10-R and not because I am this good. 

For portraits, fine art and landscape it’s absolutely amazing. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

58 minutes ago, Cronilux said:

How do you define street and travel photography? 

In my definition those can often be fast paced fleeting moments, where you don’t get a second chance. In my experience the SL3 will fail you badly way too many times in those scenarios. Pair it with a low light and it simply can’t grab focus in reasonable amount of time. 

I am quicker with my M10-R and not because I am this good. 

For portraits, fine art and landscape it’s absolutely amazing. 

That’ll be because of lens choice. If you have an APO Summicron SL on there, absolutely, it’ll be a pain. Not so much with a Sigma DGDN prime or one of the modern Sigma zooms. Set one of the front buttons to AF/MF switch and the focus to linear. Set your AF to field and increase the box size and leave it in the centre. AFS.

Of course if you set it up like an A7R5 and expect it to perform like one then you’re in for a painful ride. Set it up to maximise it’s potential and it’ll perform well.

Gordon

[Cronilux]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb FlashGordonPhotography:

That’ll be because of lens choice. If you have an APO Summicron SL on there, absolutely, it’ll be a pain. Not so much with a Sigma DGDN prime or one of the modern Sigma zooms. Set one of the front buttons to AF/MF switch and the focus to linear. Set your AF to field and increase the box size and leave it in the centre. AFS.

Of course if you set it up like an A7R5 and expect it to perform like one then you’re in for a painful ride. Set it up to maximise it’s potential and it’ll perform well.

Gordon

My experience comes in conclusion with the 28-45/1.8 DG DN Art from Sigma, 24/1.8 Lumix, 35/2 Summicron (non Apo), 50/1.8 Lumix and 50/1.2 DG DN Sigma Art.

When increasing the box size in my experience you are just hoping for the best and the camera just grabs focus somewhere. I want to be in control of the focus point. Example. I tried to photograph a church through the gap of two buildings and with the larger field it just grabbed the outer buildings. I had to adjust the field size to its tiniest setting to grab the church in the middle. 

Your description sounds like the old DSLR days, where you only had one cross AF point in the center. Why should that be the same way with the SL3, that has 315 AF points and PDAF? Honest question!

With „linear“ I assume you talk about the AF profile and you serving all to „0“ or the middle, right? If yes, I did that.

[jaapv]

What is wrong with selecting spot focus? The camera has that setting for a purpose, as it is not a mind reader. Focus is still the choice of the photographer, not the camera. 

[LocalHero1953]

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15 hours ago, Cronilux said:

How do you define street and travel photography? 

In my definition those can often be fast paced fleeting moments, where you don’t get a second chance. In my experience the SL3 will fail you badly way too many times in those scenarios. Pair it with a low light and it simply can’t grab focus in reasonable amount of time. 

 

41 minutes ago, Cronilux said:

When increasing the box size in my experience you are just hoping for the best and the camera just grabs focus somewhere. I want to be in control of the focus point. Example. I tried to photograph a church through the gap of two buildings and with the larger field it just grabbed the outer buildings. I had to adjust the field size to its tiniest setting to grab the church in the middle. 

Since you were talking about fast paced fleeting moments, I guess that must have been a fast paced fleeting church?

I don't think Gordon is suggesting one should use a large box for shooting such a scene - of course, spot focus, field or a small zone would be best.

Edited November 10, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[jaapv]

It is a philosophy driven by Sony. Switch on the camera, you can switch off you photography skills. 

Originally conceived by Kodak advertising:”You press the button, we do the rest.” 

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, Cronilux said:

My experience comes in conclusion with the 28-45/1.8 DG DN Art from Sigma, 24/1.8 Lumix, 35/2 Summicron (non Apo), 50/1.8 Lumix and 50/1.2 DG DN Sigma Art.

When increasing the box size in my experience you are just hoping for the best and the camera just grabs focus somewhere. I want to be in control of the focus point. Example. I tried to photograph a church through the gap of two buildings and with the larger field it just grabbed the outer buildings. I had to adjust the field size to its tiniest setting to grab the church in the middle. 

Your description sounds like the old DSLR days, where you only had one cross AF point in the center. Why should that be the same way with the SL3, that has 315 AF points and PDAF? Honest question!

With „linear“ I assume you talk about the AF profile and you serving all to „0“ or the middle, right? If yes, I did that.

Or half-press the shutter button and turn the focus ring

[Cronilux]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb jaapv:

What is wrong with selecting spot focus? The camera has that setting for a purpose, as it is not a mind reader. Focus is still the choice of the photographer, not the camera. 

I use spot focus, but that wasn’t topic of Gordon’s comment. I just asked questions regarding his recommendations and shared my experience with these settings. 

 

vor 4 Stunden schrieb jaapv:

It is a philosophy driven by Sony. Switch on the camera, you can switch off you photography skills. 

Originally conceived by Kodak advertising:”You press the button, we do the rest.” 

The way you provide valuable comments in this forum is unmachted. I really appreciate it. 

Maybe try less assumptions and offer some constructive comments or does your Leica Fanboyism not allow to be constructive with critique towards gear with the red dot? 

If I want to shoot manually I take my M.

[Cronilux]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb LocalHero1953:

 

Since you were talking about fast paced fleeting moments, I guess that must have been a fast paced fleeting church?

I don't think Gordon is suggesting one should use a large box for shooting such a scene - of course, spot focus, field or a small zone would be best.

I assume you don’t have any reading comprehension issues and understand how my scenario was an example as why a larger focus field is an issue.

In fast paced moments, depending on the background, a large focus field will lead to even more misfocus. Period. Gordon’s suggestion was to use a larger focus area to give the camera „more chances“. More chances to miss the focus or what? That’s why I brought up my example, since I don’t think his suggestion makes sense in any regard. But I was open to learn and hear is explanation. The only thing you and Jaap did was being presumptuous.

It’s almost like too many users in here take criticism towards Leica gear personal or feel like they are better, than anyone else.

Those comments are just ignorant and sound like you can’t comprehend, that other users are making other experiences and not due to missing skills. 

Instead of creating a constructive and uplifting environment here, it often is exactly the opposite. 
 

[LocalHero1953]

7 minutes ago, Cronilux said:

I assume you don’t have any reading comprehension issues and understand how my scenario was an example as why a larger focus field is an issue.

In fast paced moments, depending on the background, a large focus field will lead to even more misfocus. Period. Gordon’s suggestion was to use a larger focus area to give the camera „more chances“. More chances to miss the focus or what? That’s why I brought up my example, since I don’t think his suggestion makes sense in any regard. But I was open to learn and hear is explanation. The only thing you and Jaap did was being presumptuous.

It’s almost like too many users in here take criticism towards Leica gear personal or feel like they are better, than anyone else.

Those comments are just ignorant and sound like you can’t comprehend, that other users are making other experiences and not due to missing skills. 

Instead of creating a constructive and uplifting environment here, it often is exactly the opposite. 
 

You want to respond by being offensive? OK, you're on your own.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, Cronilux said:

I use spot focus, but that wasn’t topic of Gordon’s comment. I just asked questions regarding his recommendations and shared my experience with these settings. 

 

The way you provide valuable comments in this forum is unmachted. I really appreciate it. 

Maybe try less assumptions and offer some constructive comments or does your Leica Fanboyism not allow to be constructive with critique towards gear with the red dot? 

If I want to shoot manually I take my M.

Hmm.. Attempting to insult somebody who is an advocate for Panasonic, Sigma and Leica on this forum by calling fanboyism  is rather wide off the mark, I would say. 

I advocate to use the gear, any gear, in the manner intended to get the desired results - Of course AF needs manual correction in certain situations - try shooting nature and wildlife with twigs etc. in the foreground without thought. That is why Leica incorporated the half-press-manual focus option. 

[Cronilux]

vor 51 Minuten schrieb LocalHero1953:

You want to respond by being offensive? OK, you're on your own.

Imagine being unable to handle responses, that mirror your own behavior. I would be super thankful, if you would stay away from my comments, if you never offer anything of value. 

[Cronilux]

@jaapv if you think questioning the skills of someone without knowing them is not an insult, then you might want to overthink your communication. 

I don’t shoot any overly long focal length. I don’t think any AF should need manual correction within a normal focal range between 24-85mm regularly. 
 

What‘s the intended use case of a Leica SL3 in your opinion? Still life, static moments and only slow moving subjects? 

If yes, why did Leica implement AFc, If fast and continuous motion can barley be captured reliably? 

[jaapv]

Where did I question your skills? I commented on Sony’s approach to photography.
Of course AF on all cameras will need manual correction from time to time - it is only a tool which cannot read your mind about the desired plane of focus  

In my hands-and with the proper lens ( like the Summicron 35 and 50 SL or Sigma (Leica) 70-200, ) AFC works reliably on Leica cameras. 

[SrMi]

7 hours ago, jaapv said:

It is a philosophy driven by Sony. Switch on the camera, you can switch off you photography skills. 

Originally conceived by Kodak advertising:”You press the button, we do the rest.” 

I have cameras of many different brands and do not see why you singled out Sony. There is nothing in Sony cameras that encourages switching off skills more than any other brand.

[jaapv]

Too much automation. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[SrMi]

28 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Too much automation. 

Same amount as the Panasonics, I would say, or Nikons, or Fujis, etc.

[jaapv]

 Sony beats them all. Can’t speak for Canikon, but Panasonic can be configured to mimic an analog camera.