M12 wishlist

[IkarusJohn]

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22 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The initial colour is created in post by the DNG conversion, not specifically the camera. So yes, it is all about postprocessing. However to attain your vision and intended result it is practical and time saving to have a consistent starting point. But as that starting point is in the hands of the photographer it is not very useful to demand that the camera provide it. Especially as the default is so easily tweaked. 

Ah, right. Yes. I think. 

Back to my point, with the M9, I used a white balance card to get a good starting point. Auto white balance on the M60 was good enough, I stopped using the WB card. With the SL, I just set white balance at 5.5k kelvin for consistency. The AWB on both the X2D and the M10-D is also a good starting point. 

Sure, the DNG conversion in LightRoom or whatever is your choice is the starting point, following which you make adjustments. And a consistent starting point from the camera saves effort. 

Striving for the “right” colour balance, even using a colour wheel, strikes me as wasted effort as I’m going to adjust colour balance in post anyway.  What drives me to distraction is inconsistent colour balance out of camera. 

For me, there’s no such thing as the right colour. 

 

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[jaapv]

28 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

For me, there’s no such thing as the right colour. 

Objectively, only according to my definition - which will lead you down the rabbit hole of metamerism, amongst other things.

But - for me there certainly is a right colour - the one I want my image to have. 

[IkarusJohn]

Ah, the right colour for you?  Of course. I agree.  No rabbit hole on objectivity. 

[jaapv]

Unless one does product photography for a living...😜

[adan]

56 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

For me, there’s no such thing as the right colour. 

24 minutes ago, jaapv said:

But - for me there certainly is a right colour - the one I want my image to have. 

To avoid repetition,  perhaps I can interest you both in what I just posted on "right" color in an SL-system thread.

 

 

[IkarusJohn]

I already read that post, Andy. And liked it. 😀

[evikne]

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An example from my M10. LR's AWB (left) looks sort of correct, but is at the same time very cold and lifeless. I usually find the camera's AWB (in the middle) much better. But when I use the white balance from an ExpoDisc, the colors get a completely different glow and vibrancy. That's how I experienced the colors in real life. No matter how long I had manually fiddled with the color temperature and tint in LR, I would not have arrived at this, which I got with the ExpoDisc and a mouse click.

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Edited April 15, 2024 by evikne

[romaing]

1/ ibis

2/ articulate screen as the old fuji XT3

3/ hybrid view finder as the XPRO / X100 line

4/ at least an enhance optical view finder, as on the Z8.

[T25UFO]

2 hours ago, romaing said:

1/ ibis

2/ articulate screen as the old fuji XT3

3/ hybrid view finder as the XPRO / X100 line

4/ at least an enhance optical view finder, as on the Z8.

My wish list . . . none of the above 🤮

[otto.f]

2 hours ago, romaing said:

1/ ibis

2/ articulate screen as the old fuji XT3

3/ hybrid view finder as the XPRO / X100 line

4/ at least an enhance optical view finder, as on the Z8.

I’d prefer a Nikon Z in that case with a Leica lens adapter.

[romaing]

22 hours ago, T25UFO said:

My wish list . . . none of the above 🤮

Articulate screen was a bit of a provocation  But I must admit that it's really uncomfortable to lean on the floor for low shot

For the "at least" enhance optical view finder, for me it's more than necessary. It's a pain in the *** when you wear glasses actually, even with the 35mm... The optical element for diopter correction don't work for everybody... We are in 2024... 

Even if my wish for an hybrid system like Fuji seems heretic for lots of people, it's just the best of both world. You want the original experience, you stay optical, and when you need you got an in body Visoflex...

[lct]

3 minutes ago, romaing said:

[...] it's really uncomfortable to lean on the floor for low shot [...]

Sure but the Visoflex 2 is tiltable. I wish it could tilt progressively instead of 45°& 90° though.

[IkarusJohn]

3 hours ago, romaing said:

But I must admit that it's really uncomfortable to lean on the floor for low shot

That’s also where remote triggering with the Fotos App is invaluable.

Edited April 16, 2024 by IkarusJohn

[romaing]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

That’s also where remote triggering with the Fotos App is invaluable.

I think you don’t shoot things like demonstration or « social » action very often  this is just impossible to use the app.

5 hours ago, lct said:

Sure but the Visoflex 2 is tiltable. I wish it could tilt progressively instead of 45°& 90° though.

yep but it’s so much less practical than a tilt screen (even the Q3 one would be cool).

but for the tilt screen I know there’s like no chance to get one on a M body

[lct]

1 hour ago, romaing said:

it’s so much less practical than a tilt screen (even the Q3 one would be cool).

but for the tilt screen I know there’s like no chance to get one on a M body

Practical for you but perhaps not for others. I like the tilt screen of my Sony for instance but i don't miss it on my M11, FPL and CL. « Moi j'préfère la marche à pied » 😄

Edited April 16, 2024 by lct

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, romaing said:

I think you don’t shoot things like demonstration or « social » action very often  this is just impossible to use the app.

Sure I do.  But I don’t use live view for that sort of photography.  I use whatever tools are available, and functions of cameras that I have.  I haven’t had to “lean on the floor for a low shot”, using an M camera in live view for demonstrations or social action; but for that the tiltable Visoflex is about as good as I could do.

The M cameras are pretty versatile, within the range of focal lengths for which it is best suited.  Typically, using the optical viewfinder, held to the eye.  The visoflex is a good enough option, and Fotos useful.  I do use my X2D with live view sometimes, and with the tiltable LCD, but only in limited situations.  I don’t have an M camera with an LCD for live view, and don’t miss it.

What I do is hardly relevant to you, I guess.

[charlesphoto99]

17 hours ago, romaing said:

I think you don’t shoot things like demonstration or « social » action very often  this is just impossible to use the app.

 

Photographers have been shooting low level shots for many decades with cameras of all types without the need for a screen. Use a wider angle lens, know your angles, prefocus, hold the camera down to floor level, tilt it to where you need it, and shoot. With digital one gets instant feedback, but used to do this all the time with film cameras. Now we're just lazy. 

[ksrhee]

7 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

Photographers have been shooting low level shots for many decades with cameras of all types without the need for a screen. Use a wider angle lens, know your angles, prefocus, hold the camera down to floor level, tilt it to where you need it, and shoot. With digital one gets instant feedback, but used to do this all the time with film cameras. Now we're just lazy. 

Interesting.  Many photographers did not have EVF, IBIS, Rear LCD (flip-out screens), Adjustable ISOs, or Electronic shutters, but still took great photographs.  The way some people talk about technology, you would think that would not be possible.   I remember reading about how Ansel Adams had to adapt and figure out the best way to take the shot, given what he had at the time of the shooting.  I think we can all learn from his practice.  I will be the first to admit that technology helps, but that's not what makes great picture-taking.  Overreliance on technology has always been our "downfall" anyway.  

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[Smudgerer]

17 hours ago, ksrhee said:

Interesting.  Many photographers did not have EVF, IBIS, Rear LCD (flip-out screens), Adjustable ISOs, or Electronic shutters, but still took great photographs.  The way some people talk about technology, you would think that would not be possible.   I remember reading about how Ansel Adams had to adapt and figure out the best way to take the shot, given what he had at the time of the shooting.  I think we can all learn from his practice.  I will be the first to admit that technology helps, but that's not what makes great picture-taking.  Overreliance on technology has always been our "downfall" anyway.  

Sort of agree in main............There's really too much "stuff" in too many cameras these days and I find that complicated tools get in the way of instinctive work. It's not going to happen but I wish Leica would acknowledge this and take a step backwards with it's digital M's, they can do that...like what they did with the creation of the MD series of cameras even though they are something of a blind alleyway. I would love to have the M10-P revisited with a better sensor, still around the 24-36 mp mark which I know is the sweet-spot for sensors, and maybe even with the M11's battery / base that seems to have been almost a universal positive move.......but instead Leica is intent it seems on trying to pack 10 pounds of electronic shit into a 4 pound bag which is probably at the root of many operational problems for some owners. It's quite obvious that the M11's processor isn't really up to the too many tasks it's been given, having to pull a camera's battery to re-set an over-loaded processor after a freeze is pure BS......And now everyone in the higher M / MP universe is begging for IBIS to be crammed into the bag too because of the "blurring" mainly caused by the +60 mp's, maybe Leica will find a way to do that, maybe not but to me it's the digital tail wagging the dog, there's no end in all of that. KISS should be the maxim to guide the M line and not the over-complicated path it's treading now.

[lct]

Not sure how low res cameras could sell at Leica prices now that 61mp's can be had for a fraction of them (Leica M10 & Sigma FPL).

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