M10 Batteries. Availability (merged thread)

[Ronazle]

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Given the fact that the Battery shortage is obviously serious in the U.S. and elsewhere and the under warranty products (M10 R et al cameras) may be unusable until the shortage is remedied, it would seem appropriate for Leica to publicly address the widespread battery problem in the affected areas.  Regards, Ron  (this reminds me of the original M8 problem handling)

Edited December 19, 2024 by Ronazle
wording

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[adan]

On 12/17/2024 at 1:28 PM, pgh said:

I mean Leica is held 45% by Blackstone - a publicly owned firm that really only has one goal, which is to wring more money out of every one of its assets to the benefit of shareholders. I don't know anything about the majority holder Projektentwicklung but perhaps someone can speak to the idea that they operate any differently. 

ACM Projektentwicklung GmbH is the private investment arm of Dr. Andreas Kaufmann (and family), an Austrian Leica enthusiast and user (and current Chairman of the Leica Supervisory Board) who stepped in to rescue Leica from serious financial trouble in FY 2004/2005**. Bought a controlling interest of the then-publicly-traded Leica stock (including 37% owned by Hermès - the luxury scarf & handbag company!!), dismissed the top management, and installed his own turn-around expert/CEO*** to get the first M digital (M8) out the door, after the previous management fumbled the ball.

Pretty much saved the company. Then forced a buyout 2006-2008 (legal wrangling took some time) of the remaining individual public stockholders to become sole owner of a privately-held Leica Camera.

Blackstone entered the picture around 2011 - presumably to provide additional investment for the new factory in Wetzlar, and to fund the development of new products (S, CMOS M, SL, Q, CL digital, X, etc. etc.) in the 20-teens. For which it received its 45% stake, with ACM continuing to hold the controlling 55%.

At least that is the rough outline.

** https://www.ephotozine.com/article/camera-company--leica--in-crisis-2092

*** https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Josef_Spichtig

[colonel]

6 hours ago, Ronazle said:

Given the fact that the Battery shortage is obviously serious in the U.S. and elsewhere and the under warranty products (M10 R et al cameras) may be unusable until the shortage is remedied, it would seem appropriate for Leica to publicly address the widespread battery problem in the affected areas.  Regards, Ron  (this reminds me of the original M8 problem handling)

I can only speak for the uk. There is no battery shortage either from dealers or the used market. 

[Ronazle]

I hope no one felt my post was inclusive of Europe in regard my statement  " the battery shortage is serious in the U.S. and elsewhere".  I should have limited it to specific locations along with the U.S.. rather than leave open the possibilty of some  restating the "not a Europe problem". Make no mistake, as of right now there are no M-10 batteries available in the U.S. in general.  It is not a Leica USA problem nor is it a lack of resourcefullness of U.S. Leica owners,  it is a Leica Wetzler problem which will not be solved by an Ostrich approach.  Rather than debate the accuracy of "elsewhere" please address the very real U.S. non availability of the BP SCL5. Regards, Ron 

[dabrez]

I think a great deal of our posts on this subject would be not exist if Leica Wetzlar would give it's customers an explanation of what is going on. Let us know why! I've heard from what I would consider reliable sources, at the LSI meeting in Los Angeles, everything from "It's an OSHA issue," which I found difficult to accept to "It's a long story." Nothing I was told made me feel any less frustrated or confident in a solution.

Again...Just let us know what's going on and when, and if, we should be able to purchase M10 batteries in the US.

[adan]

As noted previously, the BP-SCL-5 battery for the M10 series is made by VARTA (specifically Varta Microbattery Indonesia). Per the battery and packaging labels.

Would these reports be a factor in their short supply?

https://www.varta-ag.com/en/about-varta/news-press/details/varta-ag-announces-financial-reorganization-with-starug-proceedings

https://www.ess-news.com/2024/10/09/varta-secures-fresh-cash-to-back-its-restructuring-plans/

(of note - appears yet another Austrian investor jumping in to save a German company. Shades of Leica 2004 - see post #146).

............

RE: shipment of Li-ion batteries. Air shipment (especially transoceanic) is heavily restricted because of fires caused by such devices.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_6

Not to mention numerous less-serious individual 'phone and laptop fires reported on aircraft. Typically someone's 'phone falls down into the seat-adjustment mechanism - and gets crushed when the passenger adjusts their seat. Although there have been some spontaneous "Li- thermal-runaway fires" as well.

https://nbaa.org/news/business-aviation-insider/2024-05/inflight-lithium-ion-battery-fires-what-operators-need-to-know/

The rough historical rule of thumb is that if a significant fire breaks out inside an aircraft during flight, it has about 15 minutes to land - or crash. Hard to do that when 1100 nautical miles from the nearest runway.

Ground or ship transport is somewhat less restricted. But in the case of ocean transport, could take weeks.

Edited December 23, 2024 by adan

[dabrez]

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I can see the Varta situation effecting a shortage of M10 batteries. But the first post about this issue was 3 months before Varta filed for relief. Leica had to have known in advance about this problem. I don’t know if they had time to react, or what they could have done to correct the issue. But they still could have told us why, as well as how they were going to proceed. 
Shipping is not much of a an excuse at all for transpacific or transatlantic travel of lithium batteries. They don’t have to travel by air. I would think shipping by sea on freighters in containers is most likely not an issue for lithium batteries. Although we don’t know if Varta is still capable of making the batteries. I’m not versed In maritime rules and regulations, but as a practical thinker, I ask why not?

Just questions that I’m sure there are reasons for, yet go unexplained. 

[Ronazle]

Perhaps, given various world situations, it is time for Leica to introduce a battery attachment that replaces the baseplate in the manner of old Leica motors.  The attachment perhaps could hold some alternative batteries to give life to dead M10s that Varta/Leica cannot keep going. An  Awkward battery pack, ideally using Nikon batteries, would be better than an inoperative M10 or M10R for lack of functioning batteries. What do others think?, Regards, Ron

[UliWer]

Well, is it forbidden to order an M10 battery online from Europe:

https://leica-camera.com/de-DE/fotografie/accessoires/akku/lithium-ionen-akku-bc-scl-5

... or even from Canada:

https://www.camtecphoto.com/en/product/leica-lithium-ion-battery-bp-scl5-for-m10

or are these purveyors forbidden to deliver to the US?

Red Dot Camera says on its website that due to "custom restrictions" they cannot deliver batteries overseas.

Well, there are some people around which I won't name due to restrictions of this Forum which I cherish who "want to strengthen the USA as a business location by lowering corporate taxes and making the national or regional market less attractive for imported goods from abroad. Drastic protectionist measures at the expense of long-standing trading partners such as Germany are likely."

 

 

[Ronazle]

Your "political" analysis addresses a problem that did not, as mentioned earlier, exist at the beginning of the BP SCL5 crisis.  I do think that this historic Lithium battery transport problem has much to do with the trade situation that you have alluded to.  The thoroughly proprietary nature of the battery pack creates a situation where, perhaps, a single person's decision can cause great grief among many loyal Leica users and customers. Currently, my in-warranty M 10R potentially could become useless.  Unlike the sensor problems of the past, this battery availability problem seems to be purely an administrative/supply problem. Regards, Ron 

[Ronazle]

On 12/7/2022 at 2:56 PM, jaapv said:

My M8 and M9 batteries (2006-2007) (same are still in pretty good shape......

I still have M8 and M9 batteries in use some of which were aftermarket clones.  I have one waning M10R battery, my backup ($210) failed quickly. regards, ron .

[mort linder]

i have been using leica cameras since the 1970's . i love using these cameras and i have been willing to spend the expensive cost to use

the digital ms , but the situation with the batteries , particularly with the m10 , is really unacceptable , it is a disgrace . a $200

battery that doesn't hold a charge , and now is unavailable . i have batteries for other cameras which are 1/10th the cost and have held

their charge , when unused , for a year . generic m8 batteries are readily available . leica has a responsibility to release the proprietary

chip and allow generic companies the make m batteries . 

[TomB_tx]

8 hours ago, mort linder said:

i have batteries for other cameras which are 1/10th the cost and have held

their charge , when unused , for a year

M9 batteries held charge very well - seems like they could have made M10 batteries do so too.

[DwF]

Is anyone related to this site advocating for Leica to ramp production back up for batteries (Leica BP-SCL5) for our M10 cameras? These cameras have only been out 8 years. 

David

[Chris W]

I bought a new M10 battery in London on Friday. No problem.

I don't know what the issue is with US battery supply.

[charlesphoto99]

My wife brought me back one from Dusseldorf (to the US) a couple of weeks ago. Right now, if you are in the US (and perhaps Asia or elsewhere) traveling to the UK or EU is the only way to get a brand new one. 

[DwF]

Thanks for letting me know. I am okay for now (with two) but the idea that these would be in short supply for my M10 is un settling to say the least!

[Tom Johnston]

agree!

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[TomB_tx]

Sales always rebound amazingly after a market shortage, so I hope Leica USA is prepared for that.

[pgh]

20 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

Sales always rebound amazingly after a market shortage, so I hope Leica USA is prepared for that.

Do you have some news that they will be shipping to the US again?