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The future of the SL system and why there is no roadmap for lenses

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Planetwide

Planetwide

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8 minutes ago, trickness said:

They just released a brand new SL3 two weeks ago - so they need to release a 24mm lens to show commitment to the platform? 😂

The comedy never stops on this forum

Let me spell it out for you:

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See a missing lens that was announced in 2018 for delivery in 2020?

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davidmknoble
davidmknoble

Let me get this straight.  The SL lens development began almost 10 years ago and we now have the following lenses from Leica (even if rebranded) that are Leica weather sealed and coated. Zooms

albireo_double
albireo_double

I am not going to wait for the 24 SL Cron. I will use my Super Symmar-S 24 via the Leica S-L adapter...that is, after the lens comes back from service, to replace the AF motor, for the second time. Se

trickness
trickness

Disagree. 24 is hardly an essential or in demand focal length, and a pancake lens for the SL is the very definition of a niche request. We have an embarrassment of riches in SL native glass, every rea

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trickness

trickness

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Maybe they rethought their "roadmap" after looking at sales figures and consumer feedback for products introduced since this document was generated. One unreleased lens which was such a stiff in M mount they deleted it from the lineup (how often does that happen?) and the SL system's future is in doubt? Oh and also, Covid?

If only the world stayed firmly committed to 8 year old Powerpoint presentations, we'd all be happy 😂

 

 

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Planetwide

Planetwide

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17 minutes ago, trickness said:

Maybe they rethought their "roadmap" after looking at sales figures and consumer feedback for products introduced since this document was generated. One unreleased lens which was such a stiff in M mount they deleted it from the lineup (how often does that happen?) and the SL system's future is in doubt? Oh and also, Covid?

If only the world stayed firmly committed to 8 year old Powerpoint presentations, we'd all be happy 😂

 

 

I wasn't aware that COVID was still a factor at Leica HQ. If the 24mm is such an undesirable focal length, want to explain to me why every other manufacturer has multiple lenses at this focal length?

How is delaying the introduction of the SAME lens rethinking a road map? Delayed introductions are the very reason that sales are poor - nothing for 4 years. If you think that a SL3 with a 5 year old sensor, rebadged lenses, and a 21mm APO 4 years late is competing, then I guess we look at marketing and successful product introductions very differently.

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trickness

trickness

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17 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Covid ended 2 years ago. What's the next excuse? Alien invasion? Locusts?

Sigma has released over 10 lenses in the same time span Leica released the 21mm APO.

The 24 was scheduled for 2020 in the roadmap above, smack dab in covid. And covid certainly affected the strategies of companies in every business sector.

I don't know a single photographer who uses a 24 prime (other than Alan Schaller), never seen one on the street or in a studio, and as others have mentioned 24mm in covered in several native SL zooms, plenty out there by other companies too, but sure, because Leica didn't release this one lens, the future of the platform is in doubt.

Pure comedy

 

 

 

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trickness

trickness

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5 minutes ago, Planetwide said:

I wasn't aware that COVID was still a factor at Leica HQ. If the 24mm is such an undesirable focal length, want to explain to me why every other manufacturer has multiple lenses at this focal length?

How is delaying the introduction of the SAME lens rethinking a road map? Delayed introductions are the very reason that sales are poor - nothing for 4 years. If you think that a SL3 with a 5 year old sensor, rebadged lenses, and a 21mm APO 4 years late is competing, then I guess we look at marketing and successful product introductions very differently.

Ignoring the fact that your "nothing for 4 years" is factually untrue; perhaps you should buy another camera, or apply for a job at Wetzlar. Sounds like they need you!

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Simone_DF

Simone_DF

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2 minutes ago, trickness said:

The 24 was scheduled for 2020 in the roadmap above, smack dab in covid. And covid certainly affected the strategies of companies in every business sector.

Care to explain how come every single brand with the exception of Leica has managed to release multiple offerings during the 2020-2024 time span while Leica released only the 21mm APO? Perhaps Covid hit really,  really, REALLY hard in Wetzlar?

4 minutes ago, trickness said:

I don't know a single photographer who uses a 24 prime (other than Alan Schaller), never seen one on the street or in a studio

There you go. Across all full format brands we have 31 different 24mm. This list doesn't include rangefinder lenses, only mirrorless lenses. Sigma itself is offering it in 3 different variants for L mount. They must be idiots, since nobody except Alan Schaller use them.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Mirrorless-Camera-Lenses/ci/17912/N/4196380428?filters=fct_fixed-focal-lengths_2207%3A24mm%2Cfct_lens-format-coverage_3332%3Afull-frame-lenses%2Cfct_lenses-kits_7315%3Alenses-only%2Cfct_zooms-primes_5903%3Aprime-lenses

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trickness

trickness

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Just now, Simone_DF said:

Care to explain how come every single brand with the exception of Leica has managed to release multiple offerings during the 2020-2024 time span while Leica released only the 21mm APO? Perhaps Covid hit really,  really, REALLY hard in Wetzlar?

There you go. Across all full format brands we have 31 different 24mm. This list doesn't include rangefinder lenses, only mirrorless lenses. Sigma itself is offering it in 3 different variants for L mount. They must be idiots, since nobody except Alan Schaller use them.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Mirrorless-Camera-Lenses/ci/17912/N/4196380428?filters=fct_fixed-focal-lengths_2207%3A24mm%2Cfct_lens-format-coverage_3332%3Afull-frame-lenses%2Cfct_lenses-kits_7315%3Alenses-only%2Cfct_zooms-primes_5903%3Aprime-lenses

You're right! This is the smoking gun. We should all sell our cameras. Thank you for exposing this important information.

And if/when they release a 24 SL APO, I will still be angry at Leica because they haven't released a 2 kilogram Noctilux 135mm.

Have fun, gents!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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PeterGA

PeterGA

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24mm is my most used focal length for happy snaps on the SL2 I get it from the M 24M Elmar refuse to sell the 24-90 but rarely use it...because of size. On the X2D the 30 is my most preferred focal length - for same-use cases- environmental happy snaps and sans the distortion issues one has to deal with in a 21mm lens. Leica seem to have decided that 24mm is not important for them - having discontinued the 24mm Elmar for example- which is an outstanding lens and as yet not followed upon with the 24 L APO. No big deal though - as has been pointed out there are plenty of alternative choices for autofocus if that is required- and I doubt anyone on here could tell the difference between SIgma lens or a Leica lens anyway - certainly won't make the difference between a shot that you think worthy of printing or not - that discussion is for those who have fully embraced GAS as a lifestyle choice and take MTF charts really really seriously😀

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TeleElmar135mm

TeleElmar135mm

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Perhaps the 24mm is not the lens with the "big tradition" like 35mm or 21mm. In R-Times the 24mm was a Minolta-Cooperation and in the M-Line the 24mm came very late. Not that this is a excuse. In old roadmaps the 24mm SL is shown beside the 21mm - so the lens will come. In Germany there is a proverb: "Gut Ding will Weile haben" (good things take time").

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Herr Barnack

Herr Barnack

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4 hours ago, trickness said:

You're right! This is the smoking gun. We should all sell our cameras. Thank you for exposing this important information.

And if/when they release a 24 SL APO, I will still be angry at Leica because they haven't released a 2 kilogram Noctilux 135mm.

Have fun, gents!

What?  And make some other poor soul suffer under the burden of bearing the Leica cross? 

Throw them all in the nearest dumpster and be done with them!

Edited by Herr Barnack
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beewee

beewee

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The 24 Elmar-M is my favourite and most used M lens. It’s also one of David Farkas’ of Leica Store Miami’s favourite primes. Not sure why but it seems many Leica shooters are not willing to spend money on a 24mm prime so Leica stopped making them.

I have the 28 APO which I feel is a bit narrower than I’d like for my documentary style outdoor and landscape photography and I dearly wish that the 24 APO some day gets released but the thing that makes me doubt this is:

  • Peter Karbe had some presentations in 2020 showing internals of the APO primes, including the yet to be released 24mm and 21mm primes. At this point, the internal lens mount design clearly showed that the 24mm APO was in a more advanced stage of development as compared to the 21mm APO
  • From what I’ve heard, the 21mm APO was ready to launch in early 2023 but was delayed because the Wetzlar factory was overwhelmed with Q3 orders so they chose to delay the release of the 21mm APO. In addition, Leica had some challenges in sourcing some materials (glass?) for the 21mm APO so that also contributed to some release delays.

Based on the above info, my only hope for a 24mm is that it got delayed and deprioritized because they thought the 21mm APO would sell better but will eventually get released as it was at least at one point in a more mature state of development than the 21mm APO. But if we don’t see the 24mm APO within another 18 months, I would wager that the lens has been cancelled or delayed indefinitely because Leica does not think they can make a return on the 24mm APO.

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JohnSantaF4

JohnSantaF4

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Plenty of available lenses exist. This carping sounds like the noise we used to hear about Sony mirrorless. Be creative with what’s in your bag. This sounds like the ultimate first world “crisis.” At minimum, a red herring. Hope no one’s offended, but come on guys.

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